Q A query on the old Third Division
from Stephen Taylor. 'Can you tell me please how the Third
Division came to an end in 1925-26? I've found out that one
club (Galston) resigned in January 1926, and that several others could
not complete their fixtures, but why did it happen so suddenly?'
A It's difficult to give a concise
answer to this but I'll try. Firstly, it wasn't a sudden collapse - the
division had struggled from its inception in 1923. Away clubs had to receive
a fixed guarantee of £15 per game and this represented income
from 300 paying adults at one shilling per head or 200 adults
at one shilling and 200 children at sixpence.
So before a home club could even think of meeting its own expenses or
players could be paid they had to lure a minimum of 300 adults through
the turnstiles and many simply failed to do this. Add in a general economic
downturn, the fact that many Third Division clubs came from small population
centres or (where this was not the case) suffered from being too
close to First Division sides and the travelling involved from Brechin,
Forfar and Montrose in the north-east to Dumfries, Annan, Lockerbie and
Sanquhar in the south-west and it's clear this division faced difficulties.
First to go were Dumbarton Harp in 1924-25. Then came Galston
in January 1926. By the end of the season only Helensburgh had
completed all thirty fixtures. The clubs themselves requested regionalisation
of the 2nd and 3rd divisions but this was refused by the League (Third
Division clubs were only associate members and didn't have full voting
I've seen articles and books which claim that the miners' strike and general
strike of 1926 played a part in the division's demise but the last ball
was kicked at this level before either of these disputes started.
Economically, things got much worse in the years ahead and six of
the clubs in the Second Division in 1925-26 and one in the First
had all gone by 1933 while four of the Third Division sides were back
playing league football by then.
So, although that particular division vanished and while it had its particular
problems there was a general malaise affecting the game at this time and
the collapse of the Third shouldn't be seen in isolation. There was still
a determination to have a football club of some sorts in the localities
which comprised the Third Division and the only towns represented in it
that don't have a club playing today in either league, senior non-league
or junior football are Helensburgh and Galston.
Also, there were rare success stories. By 1933 three of the Third Division
clubs (East Stirling, Leith Athletic and Queen of the South) had
reached the First Division.
At the risk of a blatant plug I have attempted to deal with this in greater
detail in my forthcoming book 'The ROAR Of The Crowd' to
be published paperback (£7-99) by Argyll Publications in May this
Q Carlos Flores from Cordoba in Spain
writes 'I congratulate you for your fantastic web page about Scottish
Football. This is my question. Could you tell me the line-ups, the scorers
and what was the exact goal scoring sequence in the following Scottish
Cup Finals, 1892, 1900, 1905, 1931 and 1939?'
A Hola Carlos. Gracias para espacio
Web cumplidos. Here's the information you are looking for.
1892* Celtic: Cullen, Reynolds, Doyle, W Maley, Kelly, Gallagher, McCallum,
Brady, Dowds, McMahon, Campbell
Queen's Park: Baird, Sellar, Sillars, Gillespie, Robertson, Stewart, Gulliland,
Waddell, J Hamilton, Lambie, Scott
5-1 to Celtic. Waddell (20) 0-1. Campbell (50) 1-1. Campbell 2-1. McMahon
3-1. Sillars (own goal) 4-1. McMahon (89) 5-1
* This was the second match. Celtic won the first game
1-0 (Campbell, 60). There was a pitch invasion by spectators and the SFA
ordered a replay.
The teams for the first game were the same except that Gallagher didn't
play for Celtic. Dowds was moved to the right wing and Johnny Madden came
in at centre-forward. Scott was missing for Queen's Park. Sillars moved
to right-back, Smellie came in at left-back, Sellar was at inside-left
and Lambie was on the left wing.
1900 Celtic: McArthur, Storrier, Battles, Russell, Marshall, Orr,
Hodge, Campbell, Divers, McMahon, Bell
Queen's Park: D Gourlay, D Stewart, A Swann, JH Irons, AJ Christie, JH
Templeton, WG Stewart, D Wilson, RS McColl, TA Kennedy, NM Hay
4-3 to Celtic. Christie 0-1. McMahon 1-1. Divers 2-1. Bell 3-1 half-time/
Divers 4-1. Stewart 4-2. Battles (own goal) 4-3.
1905 Third Lanark: Raeside, Barr, McIntosh, Comrie, Sloan, Neilson,
Johnstone, Kidd, McKenzie, Wilson, Munro
Rangers: Sinclair, Fraser, Craig, Henderson, Stark, Robertson, Hamilton,
Speedie, McColl, Kyle, Smith
Replay: The Third Lanark team was the same. Hamilton was missing for
Rangers and Low came in on the right wing.
3-1 to Third Lanark. Wilson 1-0 half-time. Johnstone 2-0. Wilson 3-0.
1931 Celtic: J Thomson, Cook, McGonagle, Wilson, McStay, Geatons, R
Thomson, A Thomson, McGrory, Scarff, Napier
Motherwell: McClory, Johnman, Hunter, Wales, Craig, Telfer, Murdoch, McMenemy,
McFadyen, Stevenson, Ferrier
2-2. Stevenson (6) 0-1. McMenemy (20) 0-2. McGrory (82) 1-2. Craig (own
goal) (89) 2-2.
Replay: Both teams were the same.
4-2 to Celtic. R Thomson (10) 1-0. Murdoch (26) 1-1. McGrory (30) 2-1.
R Thomson (35) 3-1. Stevenson (70) 3-2. McGrory (86) 4-2.
1939 Clyde: Brown, Kirk, Hickie, Beaton, Falloon, Weir, Robertson,
Noble, Martin, Wallace, Gillies
Motherwell: Murray, Wales, Ellis, Mackenzie, Blair, Telfer, Ogilvie, Bremner,
Mathie, Stevenson, McCulloch
4-0 to Clyde. Wallace (30) 1-0. Martin (50) 2-0. Noble (84) 3-0. Martin
Q From Robert Smith Was
John McColligan playing for Clyde when Colin Stein, playing
for Rangers, got sent off? And what was John McColligan's scoring record
A No he wasn't. Stein and Clyde's
Eddie Mulheron were sent off two minutes from time in the league match
at Ibrox on March 16th 1969. Rangers won 6-0 and Stein scored a hat-trick.
McColligan didn't make his debut for Clyde until the start of 1970-71.
All told, in 27 senior appearances (including substitutions) he scored
twice - in a 1-0 win over St Mirren at Love Street on October 10th 1970
and in a 6-1 defeat away to Celtic on May 1st 1971.
Q Kenny McGrouther asks 'There
is a line of Scotland t-shirts being sold by the SFA that have the number
8 on the sleeve. Is this just a merchandising ploy or is there
a great player or players who wore the number 8 for Scotland? Any info
would be appreciated.'
A We replied 'Over the years many
great players have worn the number eight shirt for Scotland including
John White, Denis Law, Billy Bremner, Bobby Murdoch, Kenny Dalglish,
Archie Gemmill, Graeme Souness and Paul McStay. But as far
as I'm aware it's not associated with any particular individual so I couldn't
say why they've chosen this particular number to market. Perhaps because
Scotland have played in eight World Cup Finals tournaments?'
And after sending that reply the SFA's Head of Communications Andy
Mitchell confirmed to us that it is indeed in recognition of Scotland's
eight appearances in the World Cup Finals.
Q From Florence, Gabriele Tox
asks 'Which club was Graeme Souness playing for when he made
his last two appearances for Scotland?'
A Not as straightforward as it may
seem, this one. His last two appearances were against Denmark and West
Germany in June 1986 in the World Cup in Mexico. Which club he was attached
to at the time is debatable.
He was introduced as next Rangers manager - and also a player -
in April 1986 but was still contracted to Sampdoria. There is no
suggestion anywhere that he was anything other than a Sampdoria player
when he played against England on Apr 23rd 1986. It all depends on the
date his contract expired. I don't know about Italy but in the UK contracts
usually expire at the end of June. If that was the case then he would
still be a Sampdoria player during the World Cup in 1986. However he was
picking teams as a manager though not playing for Rangers in May 1986.
He was in charge for the final League game on May 3rd and the Glasgow
Cup Final on May 9th.
The News of the World Football Annual for 1986-87 lists him as
a Rangers player during the World Cup but the Rothmans Football Yearbook
for the same season says he was still with Sampdoria. The Wee Red Book
says all his caps came while with Middlesbrough, Liverpool and Sampdoria
but its 1986-87 edition lists his two World Cup appearances as being made
as a Rangers player!
He didn't make an official appearance for Rangers until August 1986 (sent
off in his first game) and his other appearances before that were
in friendlies in July. Rangers' first game after May 9th 1986 was a friendly
in Germany on July 20th.
It's confusing and I have to confess that I don't really know the answer.
My best guess is that he was able to select Rangers teams as manager from
May 3rd 1986 onwards because the Italian season had finished on April
27th and Sampdoria no longer required him. But that he couldn't play for
Rangers at that time as he was still contracted to Sampdoria as a player.
So it all hangs on when that contract terminated. If it was the end of
June then he was never capped with Rangers. If it was the end of May then
he has two caps while with Rangers.
Since giving the initial answer to this question, we have been
informed by the SFA's Head of Communications Andy Mitchell that Graeme
Souness was registered as a Rangers player on May 15th 1986 and therefore
his last two caps for Scotland were as a Rangers player even though he
had yet to play for the club.
Q From Norway, Preben Jacobsen
e-mails 'Who was the first player to score 200 goals in the Scottish
Premier Division? I have guessed McGrory, but I'm not sure, so I hope
you can help me.'
A No, it was RC Hamilton who
scored 219 league goals for Rangers, Hearts, Morton and
Dundee between 1897-1914. All were scored in the top division
which was then known as the First Division or Division One. The Premier
Division wasn't established until 1975. The only player to score over
200 goals in the Premier Division was Ally McCoist with 260
for Rangers and Kilmarnock.
Q Tommy Wilson wants to know 'How
many Old Firm goals did Mo Johnston score for Celtic and how many
A Mo Johnston scored twice for
Celtic against Rangers and three times for Rangers
against Celtic. All were in the league.
Q From Bari Khan: 'I was
wondering if you would be able to tell me the trends over the years regarding
foreigners in Scottish football i.e. the 50's, the 60's, 70's 80's and
90's? I have been told that there was a Scandinavian invasion but
I was wondering if you could confirm this and could give any other input
regarding foreigners in the game. This info would be very much appreciated.'
A Well, a lot depends on what you
mean by 'foreign.' Even in the 19th century there were players born in
what were then British colonies - the Guyanese-born Andrew Watson
who was the first black player to play for Scotland is the most obvious
In the inter-war period there were players like the Dane Carl Hansen
at Rangers, Canadian Joe Kennaway at Celtic and Egyptian Kamal
Mansour at Queen's Park to name but three.
The immediate post-war period saw a number of Poles who opted to remain
in Britain after the war as well as several South Africans. The Jamaican
Gil Heron and the Italian Rolando Ugolini had spells with Celtic.
But the 'Scandinavian invasion' you refer to was in the
1960s and was sparked off by Hal Stewart of Morton who brought
over several players from Denmark, Sweden and Norway. These countries
were still largely amateur at that time and Scotland offered an opportunity
to earn a living playing football. For some it was also a backdoor entry
to English football which operated a policy of requiring two years UK
residence between 1931-78 before permitting a player to turn out for an
Stewart was followed by Dundee United boss Jerry Kerr and
by the mid-1960s many clubs had Scandinavian players in their ranks. Aberdeen
had Jens Petersen and Henning Boel. Orjan Persson, Lennart
Wing, Finn Dossing, Finn Seeman and Mogens Berg were all at
Tannadice. Dunfermline had Bent Martin. Roald Jensen was
with Hearts and Carl Bertelsen at Kilmarnock. Icelander
'Tottie' Beck was with St Mirren and Kai Johansen scored
the only goal in the 1966 Scottish Cup Final replay for Rangers who
also had goalkeepers Erik Sorensen and the German Gerhard Neef.
Sorensen was the first Scandinavian to sign for Morton who also sold on
several of the players already mentioned to other Scottish clubs. Morton
themselves still had players like Per Bartram and Preben Arentoft
on their books - both of whom later went south of the border.
There were also attempts to broaden Scottish football's horizons still
further. Celtic, Clydebank and Dunfermline all brought over Brazilians
in the 1960s but none of them made the grade.
Considering the problems experienced recently by Emerson at
Rangers and Juninho at Celtic we may be tempted to ask if Scottish
football is just too good for the boys from Brazil!!!!!
Q Brian Wright wants to know 'the
Raith Rovers team line-ups and subs for the League Cup win over Celtic
and the European ties the following season.'
A OK, these were the players who defeated
Celtic 6-5 on penalties at Ibrox in the League Cup Final on November 27th
1994 after the match finished 2-2 after extra time. Thomson, McAnespie,
Broddle (Rowbotham 93), Narey, Dennis, Sinclair, Crawford, Dalziel (Redford
112), Graham, Cameron, Dair.
Rovers played six matches in the 1995-96 UEFA Cup. Stark's Park welcomed
European football with a 4-0 win over GI Gotu from the Faeroes on August
8th 1995 and these were the men who played: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle,
McInally, Dennis, Sinclair, Rougier (Graham), Cameron, Crawford (Lennon),
A fortnight later the second leg finished 2-2 with this side taking part:
Thomson, Kirkwood, Broddle, Lennon, Dennis (Raeside), Sinclair, Rougier,
Graham, Crawford, Taylor (Forrest), Cameron.
That earned Rovers a visit from Icelandic team Akranes on September 12th
and this team pulled off a 3-1 home win: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle,
Kirkwood, Dennis, Sinclair, Wilson (Coyle), Cameron, Crawford (Graham),
Lennon, Rougier (Dair).
Rovers progressed on aggregate despite this team losing the second leg
1-0 two weeks later: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle, Coyle, Dennis, Sinclair,
Kirkwood, Cameron, Crawford (Wilson), Lennon, Dair (McInally).
Their reward was a tie against German giants Bayern Munich. Rovers moved
the first leg to Easter Road where two Jurgen Klinsmann goals won
the match for the visitors on October 17th. Rovers' team was: Thomson,
Coyle, Dennis, Sinclair, Kirkwood, Lennon, McInally (Rougier), Dair (Crawford),
Broddle, Graham, Cameron.
The European adventure came to an end in the Olympic Stadium in Munich
on October 31st but not before Rovers gave the home team a shock by leading
1-0 at the interval. Goals from Klinsmann and Markus Babbel gave Bayern
a 2-1 win on the night and 4-1 on aggregate. The Raith team was: Thomson,
Taylor (Kirkwood), Broddle, Coyle (McInally), Dennis, Sinclair, Rougier
(Graham), Cameron, Crawford, Lennon, Dair
Q Finally, after a busier than usual
period for questions, one that's easy to answer. James O'Connor
from Australia asks 'Who scored Celtic's goals versus
Rangers in August 1966?'
A No one did because the teams never met that month.