1920s Third Division
Cup Final line-ups
John McColligan
Number Eight
Souness's last caps
First to score 200
Scandinavian Invasion
Raith in Europe

All the old SFAQS can be found here




Q A query on the old Third Division from Stephen Taylor. 'Can you tell me please how the Third Division came to an end in 1925-26? I've found out that one club (Galston) resigned in January 1926, and that several others could not complete their fixtures, but why did it happen so suddenly?'

A It's difficult to give a concise answer to this but I'll try. Firstly, it wasn't a sudden collapse - the division had struggled from its inception in 1923. Away clubs had to receive a fixed guarantee of £15 per game and this represented income from 300 paying adults at one shilling per head or 200 adults at one shilling and 200 children at sixpence.

So before a home club could even think of meeting its own expenses or players could be paid they had to lure a minimum of 300 adults through the turnstiles and many simply failed to do this. Add in a general economic downturn, the fact that many Third Division clubs came from small population centres or (where this was not the case) suffered from being too close to First Division sides and the travelling involved from Brechin, Forfar and Montrose in the north-east to Dumfries, Annan, Lockerbie and Sanquhar in the south-west and it's clear this division faced difficulties.

First to go were Dumbarton Harp in 1924-25. Then came Galston in January 1926. By the end of the season only Helensburgh had completed all thirty fixtures. The clubs themselves requested regionalisation of the 2nd and 3rd divisions but this was refused by the League (Third Division clubs were only associate members and didn't have full voting rights).

I've seen articles and books which claim that the miners' strike and general strike of 1926 played a part in the division's demise but the last ball was kicked at this level before either of these disputes started.

Economically, things got much worse in the years ahead and six of the clubs in the Second Division in 1925-26 and one in the First had all gone by 1933 while four of the Third Division sides were back playing league football by then.

So, although that particular division vanished and while it had its particular problems there was a general malaise affecting the game at this time and the collapse of the Third shouldn't be seen in isolation. There was still a determination to have a football club of some sorts in the localities which comprised the Third Division and the only towns represented in it that don't have a club playing today in either league, senior non-league or junior football are Helensburgh and Galston.

Also, there were rare success stories. By 1933 three of the Third Division clubs (East Stirling, Leith Athletic and Queen of the South) had reached the First Division.

At the risk of a blatant plug I have attempted to deal with this in greater detail in my forthcoming book 'The ROAR Of The Crowd' to be published paperback (£7-99) by Argyll Publications in May this year.

Q Carlos Flores from Cordoba in Spain writes 'I congratulate you for your fantastic web page about Scottish Football. This is my question. Could you tell me the line-ups, the scorers and what was the exact goal scoring sequence in the following Scottish Cup Finals, 1892, 1900, 1905, 1931 and 1939?'

A Hola Carlos. Gracias para espacio Web cumplidos. Here's the information you are looking for.

1892* Celtic: Cullen, Reynolds, Doyle, W Maley, Kelly, Gallagher, McCallum, Brady, Dowds, McMahon, Campbell
Queen's Park: Baird, Sellar, Sillars, Gillespie, Robertson, Stewart, Gulliland, Waddell, J Hamilton, Lambie, Scott

5-1 to Celtic. Waddell (20) 0-1. Campbell (50) 1-1. Campbell 2-1. McMahon 3-1. Sillars (own goal) 4-1. McMahon (89) 5-1

* This was the second match. Celtic won the first game 1-0 (Campbell, 60). There was a pitch invasion by spectators and the SFA ordered a replay.

The teams for the first game were the same except that Gallagher didn't play for Celtic. Dowds was moved to the right wing and Johnny Madden came in at centre-forward. Scott was missing for Queen's Park. Sillars moved to right-back, Smellie came in at left-back, Sellar was at inside-left and Lambie was on the left wing.

1900 Celtic: McArthur, Storrier, Battles, Russell, Marshall, Orr, Hodge, Campbell, Divers, McMahon, Bell
Queen's Park: D Gourlay, D Stewart, A Swann, JH Irons, AJ Christie, JH Templeton, WG Stewart, D Wilson, RS McColl, TA Kennedy, NM Hay

4-3 to Celtic. Christie 0-1. McMahon 1-1. Divers 2-1. Bell 3-1 half-time/ Divers 4-1. Stewart 4-2. Battles (own goal) 4-3.

1905 Third Lanark: Raeside, Barr, McIntosh, Comrie, Sloan, Neilson, Johnstone, Kidd, McKenzie, Wilson, Munro
Rangers: Sinclair, Fraser, Craig, Henderson, Stark, Robertson, Hamilton, Speedie, McColl, Kyle, Smith


Replay: The Third Lanark team was the same. Hamilton was missing for Rangers and Low came in on the right wing.

3-1 to Third Lanark. Wilson 1-0 half-time. Johnstone 2-0. Wilson 3-0. Smith 3-1.

1931 Celtic: J Thomson, Cook, McGonagle, Wilson, McStay, Geatons, R Thomson, A Thomson, McGrory, Scarff, Napier
Motherwell: McClory, Johnman, Hunter, Wales, Craig, Telfer, Murdoch, McMenemy, McFadyen, Stevenson, Ferrier

2-2. Stevenson (6) 0-1. McMenemy (20) 0-2. McGrory (82) 1-2. Craig (own goal) (89) 2-2.

Replay: Both teams were the same.

4-2 to Celtic. R Thomson (10) 1-0. Murdoch (26) 1-1. McGrory (30) 2-1. R Thomson (35) 3-1. Stevenson (70) 3-2. McGrory (86) 4-2.

1939 Clyde: Brown, Kirk, Hickie, Beaton, Falloon, Weir, Robertson, Noble, Martin, Wallace, Gillies
Motherwell: Murray, Wales, Ellis, Mackenzie, Blair, Telfer, Ogilvie, Bremner, Mathie, Stevenson, McCulloch

4-0 to Clyde. Wallace (30) 1-0. Martin (50) 2-0. Noble (84) 3-0. Martin (88) 4-0.

Q From Robert Smith “Was John McColligan playing for Clyde when Colin Stein, playing for Rangers, got sent off? And what was John McColligan's scoring record for Clyde?

A No he wasn't. Stein and Clyde's Eddie Mulheron were sent off two minutes from time in the league match at Ibrox on March 16th 1969. Rangers won 6-0 and Stein scored a hat-trick. McColligan didn't make his debut for Clyde until the start of 1970-71. All told, in 27 senior appearances (including substitutions) he scored twice - in a 1-0 win over St Mirren at Love Street on October 10th 1970 and in a 6-1 defeat away to Celtic on May 1st 1971.

Q Kenny McGrouther asks 'There is a line of Scotland t-shirts being sold by the SFA that have the number 8 on the sleeve. Is this just a merchandising ploy or is there a great player or players who wore the number 8 for Scotland? Any info would be appreciated.'

A We replied 'Over the years many great players have worn the number eight shirt for Scotland including John White, Denis Law, Billy Bremner, Bobby Murdoch, Kenny Dalglish, Archie Gemmill, Graeme Souness and Paul McStay. But as far as I'm aware it's not associated with any particular individual so I couldn't say why they've chosen this particular number to market. Perhaps because Scotland have played in eight World Cup Finals tournaments?'

And after sending that reply the SFA's Head of Communications Andy Mitchell confirmed to us that it is indeed in recognition of Scotland's eight appearances in the World Cup Finals.

Q From Florence, Gabriele Tox asks 'Which club was Graeme Souness playing for when he made his last two appearances for Scotland?'

A Not as straightforward as it may seem, this one. His last two appearances were against Denmark and West Germany in June 1986 in the World Cup in Mexico. Which club he was attached to at the time is debatable.

He was introduced as next Rangers manager - and also a player - in April 1986 but was still contracted to Sampdoria. There is no suggestion anywhere that he was anything other than a Sampdoria player when he played against England on Apr 23rd 1986. It all depends on the date his contract expired. I don't know about Italy but in the UK contracts usually expire at the end of June. If that was the case then he would still be a Sampdoria player during the World Cup in 1986. However he was picking teams as a manager though not playing for Rangers in May 1986. He was in charge for the final League game on May 3rd and the Glasgow Cup Final on May 9th.

The News of the World Football Annual for 1986-87 lists him as a Rangers player during the World Cup but the Rothmans Football Yearbook for the same season says he was still with Sampdoria. The Wee Red Book says all his caps came while with Middlesbrough, Liverpool and Sampdoria but its 1986-87 edition lists his two World Cup appearances as being made as a Rangers player!

He didn't make an official appearance for Rangers until August 1986 (sent off in his first game) and his other appearances before that were in friendlies in July. Rangers' first game after May 9th 1986 was a friendly in Germany on July 20th.

It's confusing and I have to confess that I don't really know the answer. My best guess is that he was able to select Rangers teams as manager from May 3rd 1986 onwards because the Italian season had finished on April 27th and Sampdoria no longer required him. But that he couldn't play for Rangers at that time as he was still contracted to Sampdoria as a player.

So it all hangs on when that contract terminated. If it was the end of June then he was never capped with Rangers. If it was the end of May then he has two caps while with Rangers.

Since giving the initial answer to this question, we have been informed by the SFA's Head of Communications Andy Mitchell that Graeme Souness was registered as a Rangers player on May 15th 1986 and therefore his last two caps for Scotland were as a Rangers player even though he had yet to play for the club.

Q From Norway, Preben Jacobsen e-mails 'Who was the first player to score 200 goals in the Scottish Premier Division? I have guessed McGrory, but I'm not sure, so I hope you can help me.'

A No, it was RC Hamilton who scored 219 league goals for Rangers, Hearts, Morton and Dundee between 1897-1914. All were scored in the top division which was then known as the First Division or Division One. The Premier Division wasn't established until 1975. The only player to score over 200 goals in the Premier Division was Ally McCoist with 260 for Rangers and Kilmarnock.

Q Tommy Wilson wants to know 'How many Old Firm goals did Mo Johnston score for Celtic and how many for Rangers?

A Mo Johnston scored twice for Celtic against Rangers and three times for Rangers against Celtic. All were in the league.

Q From Bari Khan: 'I was wondering if you would be able to tell me the trends over the years regarding foreigners in Scottish football i.e. the 50's, the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's? I have been told that there was a Scandinavian invasion but I was wondering if you could confirm this and could give any other input regarding foreigners in the game. This info would be very much appreciated.'

A Well, a lot depends on what you mean by 'foreign.' Even in the 19th century there were players born in what were then British colonies - the Guyanese-born Andrew Watson who was the first black player to play for Scotland is the most obvious example.

In the inter-war period there were players like the Dane Carl Hansen at Rangers, Canadian Joe Kennaway at Celtic and Egyptian Kamal Mansour at Queen's Park to name but three.

The immediate post-war period saw a number of Poles who opted to remain in Britain after the war as well as several South Africans. The Jamaican Gil Heron and the Italian Rolando Ugolini had spells with Celtic.

But the 'Scandinavian invasion' you refer to was in the 1960s and was sparked off by Hal Stewart of Morton who brought over several players from Denmark, Sweden and Norway. These countries were still largely amateur at that time and Scotland offered an opportunity to earn a living playing football. For some it was also a backdoor entry to English football which operated a policy of requiring two years UK residence between 1931-78 before permitting a player to turn out for an English club.

Stewart was followed by Dundee United boss Jerry Kerr and by the mid-1960s many clubs had Scandinavian players in their ranks. Aberdeen had Jens Petersen and Henning Boel. Orjan Persson, Lennart Wing, Finn Dossing, Finn Seeman and Mogens Berg were all at Tannadice. Dunfermline had Bent Martin. Roald Jensen was with Hearts and Carl Bertelsen at Kilmarnock. Icelander 'Tottie' Beck was with St Mirren and Kai Johansen scored the only goal in the 1966 Scottish Cup Final replay for Rangers who also had goalkeepers Erik Sorensen and the German Gerhard Neef.

Sorensen was the first Scandinavian to sign for Morton who also sold on several of the players already mentioned to other Scottish clubs. Morton themselves still had players like Per Bartram and Preben Arentoft on their books - both of whom later went south of the border.

There were also attempts to broaden Scottish football's horizons still further. Celtic, Clydebank and Dunfermline all brought over Brazilians in the 1960s but none of them made the grade.

Considering the problems experienced recently by Emerson at Rangers and Juninho at Celtic we may be tempted to ask if Scottish football is just too good for the boys from Brazil!!!!!

Q Brian Wright wants to know 'the Raith Rovers team line-ups and subs for the League Cup win over Celtic and the European ties the following season.'

A OK, these were the players who defeated Celtic 6-5 on penalties at Ibrox in the League Cup Final on November 27th 1994 after the match finished 2-2 after extra time. Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle (Rowbotham 93), Narey, Dennis, Sinclair, Crawford, Dalziel (Redford 112), Graham, Cameron, Dair.

Rovers played six matches in the 1995-96 UEFA Cup. Stark's Park welcomed European football with a 4-0 win over GI Gotu from the Faeroes on August 8th 1995 and these were the men who played: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle, McInally, Dennis, Sinclair, Rougier (Graham), Cameron, Crawford (Lennon), Taylor, Dair.

A fortnight later the second leg finished 2-2 with this side taking part: Thomson, Kirkwood, Broddle, Lennon, Dennis (Raeside), Sinclair, Rougier, Graham, Crawford, Taylor (Forrest), Cameron.

That earned Rovers a visit from Icelandic team Akranes on September 12th and this team pulled off a 3-1 home win: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle, Kirkwood, Dennis, Sinclair, Wilson (Coyle), Cameron, Crawford (Graham), Lennon, Rougier (Dair).

Rovers progressed on aggregate despite this team losing the second leg 1-0 two weeks later: Thomson, McAnespie, Broddle, Coyle, Dennis, Sinclair, Kirkwood, Cameron, Crawford (Wilson), Lennon, Dair (McInally).

Their reward was a tie against German giants Bayern Munich. Rovers moved the first leg to Easter Road where two Jurgen Klinsmann goals won the match for the visitors on October 17th. Rovers' team was: Thomson, Coyle, Dennis, Sinclair, Kirkwood, Lennon, McInally (Rougier), Dair (Crawford), Broddle, Graham, Cameron.

The European adventure came to an end in the Olympic Stadium in Munich on October 31st but not before Rovers gave the home team a shock by leading 1-0 at the interval. Goals from Klinsmann and Markus Babbel gave Bayern a 2-1 win on the night and 4-1 on aggregate. The Raith team was: Thomson, Taylor (Kirkwood), Broddle, Coyle (McInally), Dennis, Sinclair, Rougier (Graham), Cameron, Crawford, Lennon, Dair

Q Finally, after a busier than usual period for questions, one that's easy to answer. James O'Connor from Australia asks 'Who scored Celtic's goals versus
Rangers in August 1966?'

A No one did because the teams never met that month.





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