Awards

The place to discuss Scottish football
StAndrewsHMFC
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:26 pm
Contact:

Post by StAndrewsHMFC » Mon May 12, 2008 11:49 am

I'm not sure that bringing in external referees are the answer. However I do think we need to do something to improve the standard of refereeing. I'm not talking about making mistakes, referees will always do this, but we can put the referee in the best position to make as few misstakes as possible, a couple of simple things would be to give the 4th official at SPL games access to a instant TV replay of big moments, for example Uniteds goal that wasn't at the weekend, also I think better education of players re the rules might help aswell.

The more contriversial question of bais is one that will never go away in Scotland. Big problem is the majority of referees, like the majority of the population support Rangers or Celtic, you just have to hope that doesn't effect them. The worrying thing from that point of view is having bumped into a bunch of 'officials' in St.A's occasionally the last thing you could accuse them of is impartiallity it would appear. Hopefully it was the booze talking...

nightfire
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 pm
Contact:

Post by nightfire » Mon May 12, 2008 11:49 am

lbb wrote:
nightfire wrote: I don't have a problem with that if it means that the suggestion of favouring a team is removed even if that means that foreigners have to be brought in. However, I do accept it won't stop officials making mistakes.
So why do it then?
I thought that was obvious

StAndrewsHMFC
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:26 pm
Contact:

Post by StAndrewsHMFC » Mon May 12, 2008 11:55 am

lbb wrote:“I have now had the benefit of seeing the incident again on television. I believe that were it not for the fact that I had been caught out of position by the quick transfer of play I would have awarded Dundee United a penalty and would have cautioned the Rangers player David Weir. In my opinion there was another defender in close proximity with the possible opportunity to make a defensive challenge on the attacker.

“Again, with the benefit of seeing the incident again numerous times on television, I consider it would have been more appropriate to conclude that the player, David Robertson, was not involved in active play and would have allowed the goal to stand.”
I think this is pretty strong evidence for the use of TV replays in SPL games, the decision could be made quickly, and if there is any doubt no overrule of the referee occurs. No major stopage of the game and fewer misstakes, makes sense to me.

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Mon May 12, 2008 12:49 pm

nightfire wrote: I thought that was obvious
Not to me it isn't.

Referees make mistakes - so let's bring in foreign referees to make mistakes?

No, I don't get that one. Is this one of Edward de Bono's ideas?

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Mon May 12, 2008 12:51 pm

StAndrewsHMFC wrote: I think this is pretty strong evidence for the use of TV replays in SPL games, the decision could be made quickly, and if there is any doubt no overrule of the referee occurs. No major stopage of the game and fewer misstakes, makes sense to me.
There shouldn't be a problem with TV replays and I would support it. It certainly should be compulsory at every SPL match - and I'm not really interested in any arguments that if you can't have it each match then you can't have it a particular league.

I also agree with your point about players not knowing the rules. I'd also extend this to the press.

the hibLOG
Posts: 1198
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:41 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by the hibLOG » Mon May 12, 2008 1:22 pm

I think there is a slight element of the disingenuous in McCurry's comments. The penalty offence occurred in almost exactly the same position as the offside. How was the assistant so well placed to rule on the offside but not the penalty?
Fraser

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Mon May 12, 2008 2:10 pm

the hibLOG wrote:I think there is a slight element of the disingenuous in McCurry's comments. The penalty offence occurred in almost exactly the same position as the offside. How was the assistant so well placed to rule on the offside but not the penalty?
It was clear from the replays that McCurry, from his angle, was unsure about it and looked over to his linesman who had a direct view of the incident for confirmation. He didn’t get that confirmation and was therefore in no position to give the award. That was my view of it and I’m not surprised to read that’s how McCurry saw it too.

nightfire
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 pm
Contact:

Post by nightfire » Mon May 12, 2008 5:53 pm

lbb wrote:
nightfire wrote: I thought that was obvious
Not to me it isn't.

Referees make mistakes - so let's bring in foreign referees to make mistakes?

No, I don't get that one. Is this one of Edward de Bono's ideas?
To the best of my knowledge (I don't live in Scotland so don't hear or read all reports), Levein did not use the word cheat but some pundits seem to have jumped on this to say that it is deplorable that McCurry could be thought of as a cheat and that he doesn't favour Rangers (suggesting he is not a Rangers fan). I wouldn't know whether he is not.

To avoid that accusation in future, then allow Officials to declare their allegiance and then if he does make a mistake it cannot be suggested if was because he supported the team involved.

Levein's interview has been seen by many football fans around me and whilst no one has suggested McCurry is a cheat they have said he made a complete erse of it. They went on to assume that McCurry's performance would be investigated by the authorities as would Levein for his comments - I couldn't answer that

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Mon May 12, 2008 6:36 pm

lbb wrote: Referees make mistakes - so let's bring in foreign referees to make mistakes?
At least with a foreign referee supporters would be assured the mistake was an honest one. I've said for years that English or continental refs should be brought in for OF matches. It removes all suggestion of bias and - from the ref's pov - there should be no need to look in Paginas Amarillo for glaziers.

the hibLOG
Posts: 1198
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:41 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by the hibLOG » Mon May 12, 2008 9:18 pm

lbb wrote:It was clear from the replays that McCurry, from his angle, was unsure about it and looked over to his linesman who had a direct view of the incident for confirmation. He didn’t get that confirmation and was therefore in no position to give the award. That was my view of it and I’m not surprised to read that’s how McCurry saw it too.
Are you saying that that's alright then? That the assistant had a clear view of the incident and still failed to call it as a penalty? And yet was so sure of his view of the 'offside' goal that he flagged it and insisted upon his correctness, even though McCurry had a better view of that?
Fraser

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1367
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Mon May 12, 2008 9:49 pm

Here is the report from the 1899 Cup Tie between Hearts and Rangers at Ibrox

Image

Image


The response from the SFA


Image

Image
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Tue May 13, 2008 8:28 am

nightfire wrote: To the best of my knowledge (I don't live in Scotland so don't hear or read all reports), Levein did not use the word cheat
I'd say that when you state that the referee did not give certain decisions because "this game meant so much to Rangers" then you're walking up to the door marked 'cheat' but not having the courage to actually open it. It's hardly a credible defence for Levein.
nightfire wrote:To avoid that accusation in future, then allow Officials to declare their allegiance and then if he does make a mistake it cannot be suggested if was because he supported the team involved.
So, a Hearts fan refereeing a Celtic-Hibs match will be free of any accusations of favour?

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Tue May 13, 2008 8:33 am

scottish wrote: At least with a foreign referee supporters would be assured the mistake was an honest one.
As I said in an earlier post, why should the prejudices, bias and ignorance of certain people in Scottish football be used as an excuse to ban Scotsmen from refereeing Scottish matches to accommodate these prejudices, bias and ignorance?

'Hey, he's incompetent but at least he's honestly incompetent'? It's a disgusting smear, tbh. And, of course, football being what it is, the new foreign referees would soon find themselves accused of over-familiarity, bias, etc.

We live in a country where referees have been subject to unauthorised psychologist reports analysing their body language. And you want to believe that kind of mindset can be abolished by hiring some Russian referees?

lbb
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Tue May 13, 2008 8:37 am

the hibLOG wrote: Are you saying that that's alright then? That the assistant had a clear view of the incident and still failed to call it as a penalty? And yet was so sure of his view of the 'offside' goal that he flagged it and insisted upon his correctness, even though McCurry had a better view of that?
I would agree with the assistant it wasn't a penalty - I thought Hunt went down rather easily and, upon seeing TV replays, I don't think there's anywhere near the contact some are suggesting.

Setanta had a camera angle from just behind the linesman and, at full speed, it's not obvious who the ball strikes on the way in and the United player was definitely offside.

In both cases, McCurry deferred to his linesman's view and, in both cases, I'm sure the linesman thought he was making the right call. Or do you believe he thought he was cheating?

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Tue May 13, 2008 8:46 am

lbb wrote:
scottish wrote:We live in a country where referees have been subject to unauthorised psychologist reports analysing their body language. And you want to believe that kind of mindset can be abolished by hiring some Russian referees?
No, I want referees to be like Caesar's wife, above suspicion.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests