Scotland/Wales/Norn Iron bid for Euro 2016

The place to discuss Scottish football

Post by Burnie_man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:59 am

scottish wrote:Yes, I used the Olympics as the perfect example of the SFA wanting to have their cake and eat it
The SFA DO NOT own Hampden, you dont seem to want to acknowledge that point.
Perhaps you'll be good enough to point out exactly where I made any such claim
No problem:
It is surely rank hypocrisy for the SFA (& the FAW) to put forward their grounds
They are trying to stop young Scots from competing in 2012. In one sport and one sport only.
Burnie_man wrote:25 years ago? c'mon......
What's the cut-off point for comparisons then? Obviously Barcelona 1992 is okay because you used it but Euro 1984 is not. So, sometime between those dates I guess. Let me know the exact year
Using TV coverage (or lack of) from a Euro Championships 24 years ago is silly.

Where was the outcry for a joint team 4 years ago? 8 years ago? 12 years ago, 16 years ago? 20 years ago? etc etc etc. If it is such a disgraces that our young Scottish footballers were not getting to compete, where was the outcry when Scotland actually qualified for Atlanta 96? There was none becuase nobody was interested
Enhance their profiles? Messi? Ronaldinho? For crying out loud Barcelona took the Argentine Olympic committee to court over Messi. As for the organising committee wanting top players to compete, what a nerve. Next thing you know every competition will be doing the same thing
The point I was making, as you know, was the organising committee want these players to lend some validity to their under age tournament, and Messi and co. will have received nice enhancements to their sponsorship contracts (as will their advisors and agents).
I was referring to yourstatement that "“a tournament which few football fans in the UK take any notice” was one reason for not taking part. But, okay, the Olympics is not the pinnacle for boxers or tennis players. You still haven't said if these sports should be allowed or whether it's just football at the games you don't like.
Boxing fans take notice of the Olmpics, Cycling fans take notice of the Olympics, rowing fans take notice of the Olympics, athletics fans take notice of the Olympics because the events are top of the tree for their sports. Football is nowhere near.
FFS the SFA backed by the First Minister are trying to stop Scottish men and women from taking part in the Olympics.
Where was the outcry in 1996? Did the Scotland U21 players come out and demand to play? eh no......
The "political stunt" is coming from those who seek to deny young Scots the chance to take part in the Olympic Games. Why should Scots not be allowed to take part?
Why were young Scots not allowed to take part in 1996?
Ah, so it's football only. Pure discrimination against young footballers
Read my post again, we compete as individual nations at football as a favour from FIFA, anything that endangers that priviledge must be avoided. No kid in Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland/England aspires to play for GB at football in the Olympics, just another UK Government mantra "stopping young Scots", just like in 1996 then?
Are you serious? How many players can take part in both the African and South American competitions? I thought it was obvious that I meant the Olympics were third in importance with the World Cup coming first and the continental competitions coming next IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CONTINENTS.
Let me spell it out for you - it is the third most important international tournament any player can take part in.
In other words pretty insignificant behind the World Cup and Euro Champs (for a Euro player), I'd agree with that.

YOU are being hysterical, comparing the Munich agreement to the 2012 Olympic Games. BTW if governments kept their noses out entirely there would be no games in London in 2012.
I am comparing the Munich agreement to the assurance that Murphy received from an individual within FIFA who has been proven in court to be a serial liar.
But I agree that government should interfere as little as possible. In the current instance if some people are determined to prevent young Scots from competing in one of the sports then I reckon there is an onus on government to ensure equality of treatment for all athletes. The last time any government in the UK tried to stop athletes from competing in the Olympics was Moscow 1980 (I know, it's beyond your arbitrary cut-off date for comparisons) and it was a spectacular failure.

Let's hope history repeats itself.
No kid aspires to play football at the Olympics for GB, there was no outcry in 1996 and I dont recall any outcry when England have qualified in the past. Top football people advise against fielding a GB team, the only people who want it is Brown's Government.

It's a political stunt, aided by the FA, and that's the bottom line.

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Post by Scottish » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:36 pm

Look, I’ve tried to be civil on this thread but your barrage of insults, half-truths and failure to address points made is beginning to grate. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth. You don’t think Hampden Park is Scotland’s ground? It is the NATIONAL STADIUM, the SFA and the FAW (and for that matter the tourist industries of Scotland and Wales) are accepting all the benefits of the Olympics while actively discouraging participation. Football is the only sport doing this.

Again, you decry my comparison of BBC coverage from the 1984 Euros while happily citing 1992 and making your childish but still offensive comparisons to Munich in 1938. But, again, I’ll let you have your way. Let’s accept that BBC coverage or lack thereof is the indicator of the interest or otherwise of the public.

Is that why there is no live SPL coverage on the BBC? Or international qualifiers at Hampden? See how stupid your suggestion becomes.

Not content with that you go on to suggest that the players who went to China did so for financial reasons – “Messi and co. will have received nice enhancements to their sponsorship contracts (as will their advisors and agents).”

Of course that could never happen at a World Cup? However you are quite wrong. In the case of Messi he defied his paymasters – his club – to go to China. The club took the Argentine FA to court over the issue and won the case. But Messi was already in China so they came to an arrangement over insurance, compensation etc and permitted the player to stay for the Games.

Leo Messi went to China because he wanted to play for his country. Surely that’s an attitude that should be applauded and one we would do well to encourage others to follow. But you would rather denigrate the player’s motives because his example doesn’t fit in with your own beliefs

Some of your statements border on the laughable. Like this: “Boxing fans take notice of the Olympics, Cycling fans take notice of the Olympics, rowing fans take notice of the Olympics, athletics fans take notice of the Olympics because the events are top of the tree for their sports. Football is nowhere near.”

For a start the Olympics are NOT the top of the tree for Boxers. Nor tennis players. And football is often the most watched sport at the Games. An average of 44,000 per match tells its own story. Do not confuse YOUR lack of interest with the world at large. In any case there is a principle at stake and that is the opportunity for young Scots to take part in the Games, irrespective of the sport in question. Football is the only sport in which the governing body is actively seeking to dissuade particpation.

You go on about 1996. To use you phrase “ twelve years ago, come on…” BTW Scotland didn’t “qualify” the same way England didn’t “qualify” in 2008. But if you are unhappy about young Scots not being able to play in 1996 then surely you will welcome the fact that they will be eligible to do so in 2012?

I’m glad you recognize that the Olympics are third in importance as an international football tournament. That’s a higher position than Olympic Tennis and that sport has no problem in attracting top players to the Games. All the more reason to celebrate the Games coming to Scotland for the first time and to encourage young Scots to participate.
“I am comparing the Munich agreement to the assurance that Murphy received from an individual within FIFA who has been proven in court to be a serial liar.”

Translation: You are comparing a document that helped encourage a genocidal dictator to continue along the path to the Holocaust to a Government minister talking to a FIFA official.

As for Governments then there are always plenty of occasions to lambast administrations of every political stripe for their failings in the sporting arena. Bringing the Olympic Games to Scotland for the first time ever is not one of them. Criticising ministers for meeting FIFA officials in order to assuage your concerns is surely not another. But some politicians should think twice before interfering, I agree. I give you the example of Christine Grahame MSP who has written to FIFA claiming:

“There is no doubt the British government has actively conspired with the English Football Association and officials of the BOC (British Olympic Committee] to bring undue and unprecedented pressure on the SFA and the other associations in Wales and Northern Ireland.

"I have no particular desire to see England red-carded from international competition, but clearly that is the risk being taken by British ministers and their officials.”

I know this particular MSP is not taken all that seriously in Holyrood – her last piece of press grandstanding was a demand for the “repatriation” of a 400-year-old set of bones – but it must be embarrassing for those opposed to a team GB to see their campaign hi-jacked like this.
You conclude by saying, “It's a political stunt, aided by the FA, and that's the bottom line.”

Do you REALLY believe that? What utter nonsense. Sorry but there is no other way to describe it. It reads like the kind of green ink statement put out by the cyber-warriors who live for conspiracy theories.

I’ll tell you what the bottom line is: for the first time in history the Olympic Games are coming to Scotland. Every sporting authority is encouraging young Scots to participate. Except one. And that’s sad.

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Post by Gersman » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:44 pm

SNP guide to the Olympic Games
Berlin 1936 was fine.
Moscow 1980 just dandy.
Beijing 2008 nae borra.
London 2012. Naw, ye cannae huv that. That's in Ingerland.
Fifty one and counting

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