LIVINGSTON RELEGATION - SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IN DISREPUTE?

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sam peckinpah
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LIVINGSTON RELEGATION - SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IN DISREPUTE?

Post by sam peckinpah » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:31 pm

I've just heard the news that Livingston have been demoted to the third division. What a farce.

No one can dispute that a sanction had to be imposed on Livingston FC, but such a momentous decsion so late in the day affects everyone. Fixtures and outlook for the season have now changed across the board while the two newly 'promoted' clubs have budgetted and organised squads to compete at levels lower than where they now find themselves.

Perhaps a substantial points deduction would have been more appropriate. A twelve point penalty would have been hefty, but not of a size to guarantee relegation. Luton Town started last season thirty points adrift, the inevitable happened, and many were of the view that the football league's actions compromised the competitiveness of 'League Two'.

Insolvency issues are sure to recur, so a set of rules specifically designed for this area require to be established, and then applied timeously.

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Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:37 pm

See HERE

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Livngstone relegation

Post by kiwiscot » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:29 pm

What a balls up, SFL now saying games go ahead with results only provisional if Livingston win an appeal. (which sugests to me , me they aint going to ) Also I havn't really looked at the fixtures since Airdrie & Cowdenbeath have been promoted but by just substituting them in place I bet there will be a clash of fixtures with other local clubs somewhere along the line. Whilst I'm on here I would like to congratulate Dundee on their stand in the whole affair.

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Post by upthewell » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:44 pm

They've lost their appeal - so now what happens? Is this heading for the courts?

I can see the SFL being ripped asunder here...

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Post by LLD » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:11 am

upthewell wrote:They've lost their appeal - so now what happens? Is this heading for the courts?

I can see the SFL being ripped asunder here...
If today's Herald is to be believed and Clyde go into administration within the next week then we are about to see new levels of chaos.
If we (Livingston) had been given a points deduction then all of this could have been avoided.

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:34 am

LLD wrote:
upthewell wrote:They've lost their appeal - so now what happens? Is this heading for the courts?

I can see the SFL being ripped asunder here...
If today's Herald is to be believed and Clyde go into administration within the next week then we are about to see new levels of chaos.
If we (Livingston) had been given a points deduction then all of this could have been avoided.
Of course if you (Livingston) had paid your bills in full and not run up debts you couldn't afford to ever repay it could all have been avoided too. :wink:

Having said that, I do think a points deduction would have been the best way of dealing with it for everyone and if automatic relegation was a fit punishment it should have been to the second division, not the third. Although in a year's time I'm not at all convinced Livi would be any better off. I think it's a virtual certainty that the squad Livingston have now would have been relegated after any points deduction (which would have been ten points at the very least) and 12 months from now would be preparing for a new season in division two with a negative momentum behind them. Starting in division three with McDougall claiming they will maintain a full time squad, they ought to win promotion and 12 months from now would be preparing for a new season in division two with a positive momentum behind them.

Notwithstanding the rights or wrongs of the decisions made I'm not impressed with Livingston's conduct in the last couple of weeks and I expect them to be hit with further penalties for failing to face East Stirling last week and presumably Montrose this week.

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Post by LLD » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:06 am

Skyline Drifter wrote:
LLD wrote:
upthewell wrote:They've lost their appeal - so now what happens? Is this heading for the courts?

I can see the SFL being ripped asunder here...
If today's Herald is to be believed and Clyde go into administration within the next week then we are about to see new levels of chaos.
If we (Livingston) had been given a points deduction then all of this could have been avoided.
Of course if you (Livingston) had paid your bills in full and not run up debts you couldn't afford to ever repay it could all have been avoided too. :wink:

Having said that, I do think a points deduction would have been the best way of dealing with it for everyone and if automatic relegation was a fit punishment it should have been to the second division, not the third. Although in a year's time I'm not at all convinced Livi would be any better off. I think it's a virtual certainty that the squad Livingston have now would have been relegated after any points deduction (which would have been ten points at the very least) and 12 months from now would be preparing for a new season in division two with a negative momentum behind them. Starting in division three with McDougall claiming they will maintain a full time squad, they ought to win promotion and 12 months from now would be preparing for a new season in division two with a positive momentum behind them.

Notwithstanding the rights or wrongs of the decisions made I'm not impressed with Livingston's conduct in the last couple of weeks and I expect them to be hit with further penalties for failing to face East Stirling last week and presumably Montrose this week.
I don't think anyone is arguing that there should be a punishment for entering admin or another insolvency procedure. Or that the way Livingston has been run is wrong.
However the SFL rulebook has been shown to be inadequate and there have to be severe question marks over the Management Commitee's handling of the situation.
That Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie was involved in the process at any stage is questionable to say the least.
If our relegation stands the SFL will have set a precedent which will prove to be a rod for their own back for years to come. Clyde are only one of several clubs on the brink.

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Post by upthewell » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:32 am

Clyde next? I've heard that Stirling Albion are ropey also - don't know how true this is though.

What's to happen if a few 1st & 2nd div teams go into administration? Do they all get relegated to the 3rd?

It's a horrible thing to ponder implosion and legal recrimination on this scale.

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Livngston relegation

Post by kiwiscot » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:45 pm

I can forsee the subject of SPL 2 coming back on the horizon and the bigger SFL clubs casting the rest adrift.

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Post by Rob » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:29 am

This all seems very unfair what happens to a club in the third division when they go into administration, do they get relegated? I cant see how clubs can each face different punishments.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:58 pm

There is IMO no need to demand equal punishments for all. Each situation may merit a different response - the financial disgrace that Livingston has been for the last decade-and-a-half is hardly of the same severity and/or deserves the same sanctions as Stirling's owner pulling out, for example...

Any Third Division club entering admin could be fined points, expelled, etc.

SPL2 was a dead duck with Setanta cash. Without it it's a basket case IMO.

If Clyde or Stirling end up in trouble, they don't both need to be demoted.


At the same time, I don't doubt at all that the SFL rules are backwards (or at least "unmodernised"), and need re-written. I didn't support Livi being relegated to Div 3: a 15 point fine, transfer embargo and ongoing scrutiny of accounts should have sufficed. The SFL have to a large degree made a rod for their own backs: uninformed people expect all to be demoted now.
Last edited by HibeeJibee on Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:01 pm

LLD wrote:That Jim Ballantyne of Airdrie was involved in the process at any stage is questionable to say the least.
Why is this being peddled by Livi fans with reasonable frequency? He's an Office Bearer of the SFL: the rules demand his involvement in the process in effect, but he's acted very properly by abstaining from votes and so on.

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