Those Old Firm breakaway plans in full...

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lbb
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Those Old Firm breakaway plans in full...

Post by lbb » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:17 am

From, er, 1992 -

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Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:41 am

Be fair. They did fill in the corners.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:38 am

Talking of filling in the corners is cue for old joke(correction, very old joke). When Celtic create space they score, when Rangers create space John Lawrence builds houses on it. Tee-hee.

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Post by Scottish » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:04 pm

Not to worry. Scottish football will prosper in their absence as this amazingly prescient but unfortunately unsigned article from The Herald in October 2001 demonstrates.

League after the Old Firm Livingston FC lead the field in football development


Published on 27 Oct 2001

It is easy to see the rise of Livingston FC as a fairy story in football boots. The club's lineage is light compared with that of Rangers FC, illustrious visitors to its ground in the Premier League today. Livingston started out as Ferranti Thistle, the works' team of the defence electronics company. They then became Meadowbank Thistle. In footballing terms it was a moribund existence. Under Bill Hunter, the then chairman, the club made the difficult and unpopular move from Edinburgh to the new town of Livingston. It has been truly transmogrified in the process. Livingston, in their first season in the top league, lie in third place, chasing the mighty Old Firm. Football prospered in Scotland's industrial age as the medium of mass entertainment for working-class men. Livingston are thriving in the post-smokestack era, as the modest focus for local families. Yet they have succeeded while the new industries with which they are associated have, ironically, struggled. Ferranti has only a fraction of its former presence in Edinburgh. Motorola, Livingston's shirt sponsor, has closed its plant in nearby Bathgate. NEC has made 600 redundant at its factory in the new town. But the club's success has lifted at least some of the economic gloom, helped boost deflated morale, and bolstered a battered sense of civic pride. By any standard, it is an enlightened club. It has taken a lead in promoting women's football, hosting women's international matches and cup finals. It also has an affiliated women's team. It is further ahead than most clubs in planning for a football academy, the initiative intended to prevent young talent slipping through the net. It has gone out to its community by offering family-friendly facilities to entice families to Almondvale, its custom-built stadium. It aims to tackle bigotry and other visceral outpourings by banning foul and abusive language in the ground. But it is no fairy story. The club has its benefactor, John McGuiness, a major lottery winner, but it is run by hard-headed business people. Its success shows what can be achieved, despite the stifling presence of the Old Firm. The recent PricewaterhouseCoopers report confirmed just how parlous the financial state of Scottish football at the highest level was, even with the drawing power and bankrolling of Rangers and Celtic. The Glasgow giants, desperate to compete on a higher plane, might seek pastures new in the English Premiership, with its (pounds) 1bn-plus broadcasting deals. If they go, a gilded safety net will be removed and some clubs might not survive the fall. But Livingtston's success, built on sound and innovative management, forging community links, and pursuing family-friendly policies, shows that there can be life with, never mind after, the Old Firm. It might get even better if they go.

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Post by lbb » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:04 am

scottish wrote:But it is no fairy story. The club has its benefactor, John McGuiness, a major lottery winner, but it is run by hard-headed business people.
Heh, heh - as evidenced by the recent match The Royal Bank of Scotland Public Ltd Co AGAINST Dominic William Keane.

I'm surprised at how often the press swallow this nonsense from the Old Firm. Going right back to Murray's various pronouncements on the issue, the claims Celtic were going to buy Wimbledon to get into the Premiership, etc. You would have thought some kind of credibility issue would start to emerge. Yet the number of commentators who have came out with 'they wouldn't have mentioned it if they didn't think it was serious' - it's called 'flying a kite'!

It takes a LOT for me to have sympathy with Mark McGhee but I found myself in agreement with his comments over the weekend.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:22 am

The financial "facts" behind Gretna`s meteoric rise appear to have been exposed in this morning`s Glasgow Herald. Brookes Mileson seems to have had slightly less money than was broadcast before.

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Post by Scottish » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:11 am

lbb wrote: It takes a LOT for me to have sympathy with Mark McGhee but I found myself in agreement with his comments over the weekend.
I'm in agreement on both counts but I wonder if he'd still have the same views had he landed the job he really wanted in the summer? After all Tony Mowbray was a pretty firm opponent of OF entry to the Premiership when he was in charge at West Brom but underwent a Damascene conversion the moment he got his feet through the Parkhead door.

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Post by the hibLOG » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:01 am

Groundhog Day.

Smith says move would benefit all of Scottish football

'Old Firm must go or game will die'

And Scottish football will be helped precisely how? By the Old Firm being rich enough to buy even more expensive foreign players. Hallelujah, the World Cup is once again within our grasp.
Fraser

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:23 am

Sound judgement from Oor Wattie - "Let`s form a league with clubs from lots of other countries which couldn`t qualify for the World Cup Finals." That`ll give our game the jab it really needs. But don`t dismay, the Glasgow Beauties will deign to leave us with their reserves & youth sides. Come on everybody, get your forelocks tugged,"Thank ee young master." If this latest is the best our clodhopping "leaders" can suggest, we`re in deeper doggy doodah than I thought. As an exercise in limited thinking Mr.Smith`s logic takes some beating. Here he is, along with Mr.Lawwell, desparately trying to convice the likes of Bolton Wanderers that the Glasgow pair should be allowed to join the English League then suggesting they hook up with the likes of Anderlecht, Alax & Benfica who would immediatley skip across THEIR borders given half a chance(options more likeley than the English welcoming our heavyweights) leaving our giants stuck with Ghent, Twente & Braga. If Celtic & Rangers can`t fill their grounds against Europe`s best how will attendance figures fare against 2nd & 3rd Division opponents? Perhaps, once they`re out there amongst the mediocre(& not necessary winning the North Altantic Munchy Crunch Biscuits["Mmm, they`re so good!]League title), the SPL shouldn`t let them back! Watch out in tomorrow`s Glasgow Herald for Roger the Dodger Mitchell`s searing insite into why he was so brilliantly ahead of his times 10 years ago. It really would make you weep.

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Post by lbb » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:24 am

There is some warped logic to what Smith is trying to say. He goes on to mention the case of Red Star Belgrade, a former European Cup winner that gets 75,000 for derbies and European games and spent £15m to reach the Champions League. They lost and promptly sold the players.

It's no longer about how many fans you have or how many you get through the gate on a Saturday. It's all about TV markets. Television has totally distorted the game. You might argue that the Old Firm were compliant in this as long as it was to their advantage and you'd be right. However, a situation where Wigan Athletic are more powerful than some of the biggest names in world football is a topsy-turvy one. That's why it's not just Rangers and Celtic that are getting itchy feet. There are major clubs, former European winners, who now realise they are almost boxed in.

As it happens, I don't believe a move to the Premiership will ever happen and neither will the Transatlantic League or whatever it was called. For me, the only hope is that the bubble bursts in England and Spain and we have some kind of 'correction' in whatever form that takes. The Champions League is starting to lose appeal thanks to the largely pointless group stages and the same procession of teams in the last 8/16 every year. If people start turning off in significant numbers then perhaps there will be an effect in England and Spain. That's the only way I can see some kind of parity being restored.

Of course there is hypocrisy here by the Old Firm in their concern over the monopoly of the European game by a powerful elite but are not concerned by the monopoly of the Scottish game by, er, them. If they genuinely wanted competition in Scotland, they could have it. So of course they're not THAT interested in the future of Scottish football.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:24 pm

lbb wrote:Of course there is hypocrisy here by the Old Firm in their concern over the monopoly of the European game by a powerful elite but are not concerned by the monopoly of the Scottish game by, er, them. If they genuinely wanted competition in Scotland, they could have it. So of course they're not THAT interested in the future of Scottish football.
We all know OF's controlling commercial and/or administrative players would sell the rest of Scottish football down the river - if it would advantage them...

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:29 pm

Yes, of course you`re right re TV & sponsorship but it really would be the Munchy Crunchy Biscuits end of the spectrum who`d be interested in the 3rd rate NATO League. Attendances WOULD be important because a bunch of yelling fans in full view of the camera is essential to create the right ambiance. Mind you the FGR & the Timaloys could station all 5,000 in the stand facing the cameras & get them to rush about to follow the lens. Of course Celtic & Rangers aren`t interested in Scottish football - never have been: we all know that.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:48 am

The piece purportedly by Roger Mitchell in yesterday`s Herald was only beaten for waste of newsprint by Britney Speirs` pieces in the Sunday Times Scottish sports section. I read the first few lines of his 1st one & threw away the paper. Mitchell reckons Scotland`s fortunes peaked in 1973. This is the year England won 5-0 @ Hampden. Man`s a simpleton.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:53 pm

One day people will look on R Mitchell in a different light. Mainly of laughter...

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:40 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:One day people will look on R Mitchell in a different light. Mainly of laughter...
how would that be a different light?

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