Those Old Firm breakaway plans in full...

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HibeeJibee
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Post by HibeeJibee » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:56 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote:
HibeeJibee wrote:One day people will look on R Mitchell in a different light. Mainly of laughter...
how would that be a different light?
A well fair enough!! At the moment - I think he's a bit like the drunk old man who lives on the corner... he's a nuisance, he talks nonsense, but you humour him and pity him to a degree. Mitchell seems in a state of gross self-delusion.

the hibLOG
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Post by the hibLOG » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:36 pm

Enjoyed Mark McGhee's piece in the Herald again- mainly because it was amazing to hear anyone involved at a senior level with Scottish football (including journalists) write so articulately.
Fraser

lbb
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Post by lbb » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:24 pm

Old Firm Euro record 2009-10 - P 9 W 1 D 2 L 6 F 8 A 18

Perhaps a period of silence on the breakaway subject might be in order.

exile
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Post by exile » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:26 pm

After the Unirea result a league consisting of Celtic, Rangers, the Faroes, the Shetlands, and Rockall would be about right.

HibeeJibee
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Post by HibeeJibee » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:13 pm

exile wrote:After the Unirea result a league consisting of Celtic, Rangers, the Faroes, the Shetlands, and Rockall would be about right.
I fear stuffin' by the puffins. Our fate will be sealed. "Sing when your fishing".

the hibLOG
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Post by the hibLOG » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:34 am

Richard Scudamore: "As regards to Celtic and Rangers it's a non-starter," he said. "So we've made a clear and unequivocal statement and we're going to move on from there. No means no.

"The clubs constitutionally voted to say we're not going to take this any further, Celtic and Rangers are not coming in."

Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey added: "It's the English Premier League. It's our product and we're working on our product. The Premier League clubs have made their decision and we move on. We wanted clarity and we've got clarity."


How long do you give it before the next 'Old Firm bid for move to England' story?
Fraser

the hibLOG
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Post by the hibLOG » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:10 am

Hunbelievable. No sooner had I posted the above but I turned to the Herald and their spin on it is:
Old Firm snubbed by English Premier League, but breakdown of the voting proves the issue will not go away

"...However, the count tells a different story. The vote yesterday against the Old Firm’s inclusion in an English league is thought to have been 14-6 against. Supporters of a move south by the Glasgow clubs were last night pleasantly surprised by the numbers."
The voting is not made public and Scudamore's statement that the EPL clubs "constitutionally" voted no simply means that the split could have been no less than 14-6, but was actually much more emphatic than that. The BBC, the Guardian and even the Scotsman all understand that. Hugh McDonald doesn't and makes a tit of himself and his newspaper. Weegie Meedja clutching at straws. Utterly ridiculous.
Fraser

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:49 am

Bill Leckie in the Sun

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol ... -them.html
Rangers and Celtic believe they ARE Scottish football. Well, think again, chaps.

There are 40 other clubs with as much right to breathe the air as you do. You only have 11 players with two legs each, the same as Montrose or East Stirling.

In the wake of this watershed decision by the Premiership, it's up those 40 clubs to decide what they want for their game - because it IS their game.

Do they want to seize the day and push for change, to reunite the two league bodies and get back to the split of divisions that almost everyone seems to want - 18 in the top flight and a 24-team second flight, playing each other twice a season with the gate money fairly divvied?

Or are they happy with being talked down to, treated as lower class, merely waiting for the next airy-fairy escape plan to be hatched?

For me, unity and change is the ONLY option
.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

lbb
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Post by lbb » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:37 am

If it was 14-6 then it's better than the 20-0 vote of a few years ago. The whole thing was a non-starter regardless.

Leckie wouldn't be Leckie without his 'I'd rather be at Burntisland than watching the Champions League' patronise-the-wee-clubs pish. I would accept his view that an OF-less SPL wouldn't become equivalent to the Leagues of Wales or Ireland if the non-OF clubs didn't have such consistently disastrous results in Europe over a period of many, many years.

What's his solution to improve the SPL? 'Bring back the Lisbon Lions!' Why haven't Celtic fans thought of that one before? So, basically, all Scottish football needs to do is start producing world-class players again and the league will improve. Thank goodness for the illumination Bill Leckie brings to a subject.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Bringing back the Lisbon Lions won`t work because some of them are dead & the rest are in their 70s. Even the current Celtic side would probably beat them even if they had to go into extra time to do it.

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Post by the hibLOG » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:51 am

lbb wrote:If it was 14-6 then it's better than the 20-0 vote of a few years ago. The whole thing was a non-starter regardless.
Hellooooo, am I invisible? Can anybody hear me?

The vote was not 14-6. It was nowhere near 14-6. Only the 'Old-Firm-are-the-biggest-clubs-in-the-world' fantasists think it was anywhere near 14-6.
So, basically, all Scottish football needs to do is start producing world-class players again and the league will improve.
What's so far-fetched about that? Surely it is self-evident that if the country produced better footballers the league would improve?

Scotland produces pish footballers because its coaching and training structures from the bottom up are mince. We've been saying that for 20 years or more. Hardly any of the clubs, least of all those two most able to afford it, have invested in youth or supported the establishment of structures that would actually produce better footballers from the raw material we have.

Are we supposed instead to believe the recent self-serving hypocritical garbage that the Old Firm departing to more lucrative foreign pastures will be the saviour of our game?
Fraser

lbb
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Post by lbb » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:25 pm

the hibLOG wrote: The vote was not 14-6. It was nowhere near 14-6. Only the 'Old-Firm-are-the-biggest-clubs-in-the-world' fantasists think it was anywhere near 14-6.
I saw your post. I don't know what the vote was. I would have thought Bolton would at least have voted for their own proposal. I just remember there was a vote a few years ago and it was 20-0 against.
the hibLOG wrote:What's so far-fetched about that? Surely it is self-evident that if the country produced better footballers the league would improve?
It certainly is but I don't think it needs saying.

Scottish society, Scottish football and European football have changed enormously in the last 30-40 years. To get to the heart of the problems in Scottish football would take an effort from everyone, not just one or two clubs, but as these problems have been manifest for the last 20 years I'm not confident that the organisational and cultural changes required will ever happen. So, for a journalist to then type that we won the European Cup 40 years ago and why don't we get back to that as if no-one had ever considered that possibility desirable is frankly moronic.

People like Leckie are part of the problem. I know for a fact that one of his 'solutions' to improve Scottish football is to split gate receipts. Okay, some clubs would get more money. Can it seriously be argued that the only thing stopping St. Mirren playing open, pacy, attractive football is an extra 300,000 in their bank account every year? It's a factor but it's not the factor. But the Leckie probably thinks St. Mirren are a good team and Gus McPherson is beyond reproach. In fact, he's already said this. He used to say the same about Falkirk until a team from Liechtenstein exposed that myth. Leckie is the sort of brainless arsewit who approves of 'commitment', i.e defenders who run 50 yards to boot the ball aimlessly into the stands to wild applause from Scottish fans, rather than lazy foreigners who might occasionally do something interesting but don't track back and tackle.

Leckie also supports the re-introduction of the old bloody First Division, a solution that would empty stands all over the country and leave TV companies searching for a midnight slot to broadcast Scottish football. Basically, all his ideas are about trying to recreate the 1960's/1970's - so if we split gate receipts, brought back an 18-team league, made everyone wear flares, listen to T-Rex, Sweet, etc. then the good old days will inevitably return. Those days are gone and they're not coming back. It's no longer of any relevance to us how things worked in 1967 or 1972. We need to look at what works now and really start some radical planning in Scottish football otherwise we will end up as the League of Wales or Ireland, despite what Leckie thinks.

The SPL tried to bring in some standards and it's failed but Leckie has just constantly criticised it from the beginning. So I can just imagine his reaction if the SPL announced some criteria regarding youth development, training facilities, etc. He would be the first one to complain about the costs, nothing to do with the game, guys like Gus McPherson work harder than any SPL bureaucrat, etc. He criticised the Old Firm when they were buying foreign players because they weren't buying Scottish players; he criticised them when they were buying Scottish players because they weren't developing their own; he criticised them when they didn't have proper training facilities; he criticises Lennoxtown and Auchenhowie. And so on.

Scottish football DOES need a major overhaul but no-one will take the lead on the project and that's that.

John Meffen

Post by John Meffen » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:33 pm

lbb wrote:Leckie wouldn't be Leckie without his 'I'd rather be at Burntisland than watching the Champions League' patronise-the-wee-clubs pish.
Well said, I do quite Leckie, he sometimes seems to make some sense, but he does occasionally overdo the 'grass roots' bit.

I support Falkirk, we [like others] have had good players plundered from us, but we have [almost] stolen players from the 'shire, stenhousemuir, whoever, when it felt right.

we're all just taking our places, in the order of things

piety is deserved of none of us

Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:42 pm

lbb wrote: I just remember there was a vote a few years ago and it was 20-0 against.
There wasn't a vote. It didn't get that far. With unanimous opposition there wasn't even a proposal. But it suits the OF to claim they have gone from zero to six. We don't know what was voted on, if anything, or what the figures were. All we know is that Gartside's suggestion to establish a Premiership two, shorn of any suggestion to include the OF, is to be looked at and that the suggestion to consider the OF had nowhere near the levels of support needed to even include them in that.

I'll say it again. The only time the English Premiership will seriously consider the OF is if the TV money has dried up and crowds are falling. In other words when joining the Premiership is no longer worth the candle.

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Post by the hibLOG » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:14 am

lbb wrote:Scottish football DOES need a major overhaul but no-one will take the lead on the project and that's that.
How's about if the Old Firm took a lead if they are so worried about the perilous state of Scottish football? Then presumably the SFA and SPL would follow like the obedient wee pets they are.
Fraser

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