Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby ScottishFA » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:08 pm

Yes, I think he is one of them! I didn't have the exact date of birth, but the father's name makes it fairly certain.

He was the eldest son of Owen Gourlay (1856-1932), a player with Annbank, and Mary Kennedy (1852-1924) - presumably they married after his birth, as they had several other children together. Owen was brother of James McCrorie Gourlay, one of the internationalists.

John Gourlay died 27 January 1931 in Tarbolton according to a family tree on ancestry.
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby leicester » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:30 pm

Excellent! Many thanks.
Have confirmed the death date via Scotland's People.
Just have the Manchester United 'mystery' to clear up now...

PT
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby tonypark » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Hi,

I am a Manchester United historian and came across your reference to John Gourlay.

In Garth Dykes book, 'The United Alphabet' it has this to say about Gourlay.

"John Gourley's solitary appearance was made at a time when a suitable successor to James McNaught - transferred to Tottenham Hotspur - was still to be unearthed. Yet another recruit from the Annbank Club in Ayrshire, Gourlay's debut at Loughborough Town resulted in a welcome away win by 1-0. His performance, however, was no improvement on displays by several predecessors in the vital centre-half role. The 'Cricket & Football Field' reported: Gourlay is slow, he can head the ball and tackle, but he will need to come on a lot if he is to fill the long-felt want of a pivot to follow McNaught. Gourlay was not retained at the end of the season, his stay at Clayton having lasted for a little over two months."

Apart from his coming from Annbank there are no references to his other clubs, nor the friendly match v Celtic. In Dykes book it gives no date of birth except 1879 so it is feasible it may be a different person. However, the fact that he was a 'journeyman' in the English leagues, particularly the north-west suggest it might be the same person.

Of course, Manchester United were still called Newton Heath in 1899 and played their games at Bank Street, Clayton.

Hope this helps

Tony
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby Partick Thistle » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:26 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how often internet searches lead me back to this place!!

Andy,

The Jimmy Gourlay who scored Morton's 1922 Scottish Cup winning goal is listed on Wikipedia as being born on 11 September 1888 – with a source link to your piece:
http://www.scottishsporthistory.com/spo ... cambuslang

However, you're saying he was born on 11 January 1888?

Tony Onlsow has also written about this player and says he was named James McCrorie Gourley and was born on 11 September 1888.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/16-17/c ... tml#769360

So, I was wondering if you'd be able to clarify a few points?

Gourley or Gourlay?

11 January or 11 September?

Was McCrorie his middle name (the same as his father)?
William
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby ScottishFA » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:58 pm

I've had more emails and comments about the Gourlays than any other blog post over the years, so I'll add this to the collection!

The Everton/Morton player was plain James Gourlay, no middle name, no e in the name.

As for the Wiki page, the person who added the birth date was a guy called James Morrison (jmorrison230582) who is one of these Wiki obsessives who lifts information relentlessly from other people's websites and posts it on Wikipedia. In this instance, he included a link to the blog, but managed to copy the birth date wrongly - it was indeed January. I've just gone on Wikipedia to change it to the correct date.

(For more on James Morrison, see this earlier thread: http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4754 )
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby Partick Thistle » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:48 pm

Brilliant, thanks pal.

And if you ever read this Morrison; get your clumsy act together. :x
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby RobertB » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:06 pm

Apologies if this has been posted before but reading through press reports from the 1880's relating to Arthurlie I came across new info for me at least. McPherson who was capped against England was commonly thought to be Robert as it was 90% R McPherson so on seeing him listed as B McPherson I just took it for granted it was Bob short for Robert but reading The Athletic News, March 8, 1882 here they explain the team selection they write 'R McPherson who is better known as "The Baker"' which I take to be his nickname from probably his occupation.
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby ScottishFA » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:24 pm

RobertB wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before but reading through press reports from the 1880's relating to Arthurlie I came across new info for me at least. McPherson who was capped against England was commonly thought to be Robert as it was 90% R McPherson so on seeing him listed as B McPherson I just took it for granted it was Bob short for Robert but reading The Athletic News, March 8, 1882 here they explain the team selection they write 'R McPherson who is better known as "The Baker"' which I take to be his nickname from probably his occupation.


He was definitely Robert, and generally known as Bob. The Baker was a nickname, presumably related to some obscure Victorian pun, but his actual occupation was a power loom weaver in a cotton factory in Barrhead.
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby RobertB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:26 pm

ScottishFA wrote:
RobertB wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before but reading through press reports from the 1880's relating to Arthurlie I came across new info for me at least. McPherson who was capped against England was commonly thought to be Robert as it was 90% R McPherson so on seeing him listed as B McPherson I just took it for granted it was Bob short for Robert but reading The Athletic News, March 8, 1882 here they explain the team selection they write 'R McPherson who is better known as "The Baker"' which I take to be his nickname from probably his occupation.


He was definitely Robert, and generally known as Bob. The Baker was a nickname, presumably related to some obscure Victorian pun, but his actual occupation was a power loom weaver in a cotton factory in Barrhead.


Many thanks for that Andy, I have seen some mentions of him listed as W. R. McPherson do you have anything on that?
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby ScottishFA » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:27 pm

No, just plain Robert, born 1858 in Barrhead.

I have him at Arthurlie 1879-87, and no other clubs. Does that tally with your own info?
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby RobertB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:24 pm

ScottishFA wrote:No, just plain Robert, born 1858 in Barrhead.

I have him at Arthurlie 1879-87, and no other clubs. Does that tally with your own info?



Seems to be Andy, I have him listed every season bar season 1885/86 but I only have two line ups from fifteen confirmed games to date, he does play the following season so I expect him to appear if I ever get more team lines.

Thanks again
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Re: Another Scotland international - J Gourlay x2

Postby RobertB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 pm

RobertB wrote:
ScottishFA wrote:No, just plain Robert, born 1858 in Barrhead.

I have him at Arthurlie 1879-87, and no other clubs. Does that tally with your own info?



Seems to be Andy, I have him listed every season bar season 1885/86 but I only have two line ups from fifteen confirmed games to date, he does play the following season so I expect him to appear if I ever get more team lines.

Thanks again


Just noticed that the only line up I have for season is the Renfrewshire Cup final replay against Thornliebank and I have a McPherson in the Arthurlie line up but no first name confirmed?
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