Cup Final attendances

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Gorgiewave
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Cup Final attendances

Post by Gorgiewave » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:47 am

Over the years I have seen a fair bit of discrepancy in Cup Final attendances. In particular the following are often given as at least two different figures:
1937: 146,433 or 147,365 (Scotland v England the same year: 149,415 or 149,547 or 150,239)
1956: 132,840 or 133,399
1996: 37,730 or 37,760
1999: I have seen this given as 52,670, which as far as I know was above the published capacity (52,025 or 52,103 - do we have a definite Hampden capacity? Has the capacity changed at all since reconstruction was completed?).

Do we know which of these figures is correct (if any) and what accounts for such discrepancies?

Thanks for any clarification.
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Gorgiewave
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Post by Gorgiewave » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:22 pm

PS: 36,915 or 38,672 in 1995 is another that is not universally agreed upon.
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Post by Scottish » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 pm

1937 - 147,365
1956 - 133,583
1995 - 38,672
1996 - 37,760
1999 - 51,746

These figures are all from the Hampden gate book. There are a number of 'accepted' figures for various matches which have appeared in print which are different from the gatebook figures. In all instances I take the gatebook figures as likely to be the most accurate.

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Post by Matt » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:45 am

Current Hampden Park capacity as provided by QP's official about a month ago: 52,063

Snuff
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Cup Final attendances

Post by Snuff » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:05 pm

I seldom believe published attendances. Some years ago a journalist friend of mine, covering a Scottish Junior Cup semi-final at Somerset Park, did what he did every Saturday when covering Ayr United home games and went down from the press box to the gate checkers, who gave him the attnedance.

This he conveyed to the other reporters, who duly published. The next day the SJFA were onto the various national papers, kicking up hell. They then got onto the 'phone to the local journalist, demanding a retraction, since the published attendance was some 1500 higher than the "official" one.

"Where had he got what was clearly a wrong figure?" the SJFA demanded.

"The official gate checkers".

Funny enough, he didn't get an apology, and his hitherto annual invitation to the pre-Junior Cup Final lunch was withdrawn and has never been restored.

A Northern Irish journalist friends tells a similar story. When Derry City left the Irish League for the League of Ireland, the first time they reached a cup final, it was still all-square after two games.

None of the press believed the published figure for the second game, played at Derry's ground. Derry then won the toss to have the deciding third game played there too.

The attendance this time was even bigger - "They were standing on each others' shoulders on the terraces", reported my Irish friend.

Then they announced the attendance - some 5000 less than for the second game.

The Celtic board of the "biscuit tin" years weren't the only football officials who couldn't count a crowd properly.
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Post by Insertnamehere » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:46 pm

On that subject I went to an Arthurlie verse Kilwinning Rangers semi final at Love Street when the Saints were in the first division. On the Sturday morning the papers had the crowd at 6500 but people were turned away as it was full and someone I know who worked there stated it was the biggest crowd in the ground since the OF had played there.

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Post by Scottish » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:47 pm

I could understand clubs issuing lower figures in the days when they paid entertainment tax (any re-imposition of the above would surely lead to challenge in the courts under the Trades Descriptions Act) but now it is the other way around. It is most definitely in the interest of the OF for instance to inflate figures when looking for sponsors, advertisers and TV deals.

For the junior instances cited then the only benefit would be to inflate the SJFA's coffers at the expense of the teams playing. Not something I imagine the clubs would be happy about or for that matter let lie.

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Post by Gorgiewave » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:10 pm

Lowest Cup Final attendance since 1979 now a possibility.

Couldn't happen to nicer, whingier, dirtier, your-day-will-never-come wallopers.

Intelligent board 'n' that.

:D :D :D :D :D
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:17 pm

I`m stunned. I just can`t believe it. At last a major unpset in Scottish football. Please. please, please Scottish press no "People`s Final" patronising. I don`t think the attendance will be that low for the Final - 40,000 anyway whoever the Staggies get.

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Post by lbb » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:30 pm

Too late. I heard someone on Radio Scotland mutter 'Family Final'. It might have been Chick Young before taking his HRT tablets.

I'm sure the match will sell-out. We don't get too many cup finals without either of the OF so the fabled neutrals and 'families-driven-away-by-bigotry' of ancient legend will be out in force. Good luck to whoever wins it as they'll have earned it. And it is nice to have a completely open Cup Final like this.

And it gives Celtic a free weekend at the end of a long season, too.

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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:38 pm

United could still do "the double" - so could County.

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Post by Scottish » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:02 am

lbb wrote:Too late. I heard someone on Radio Scotland mutter 'Family Final'
Old Firm finals are 'family finals' too.

Manson v Addams that is.

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Post by Gunboat Briggs » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:17 am

scottish wrote:Old Firm finals are 'family finals' too.

Manson v Addams that is.
On the same note, I did wonder why Radio Scotland commentary was proclaiming "deligth for the Adams family" at the final whistle yesterday .... I didn't think the Celtic fans would have been all that happy...

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Post by Gorgiewave » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:33 pm

Would people care to predict this year's Cup Final attendance?

I'll go for 41,275.
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Post by Scottish » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:44 pm

Looking at attendances in general most will be aware these are down this season with Celtic playing a large part in the drop. But perhaps it hasn't been apparent just how deep the drop is. Looking at the published figures for the four divisions I think I can now predict that this season will see overall league attendances will fall below the four million mark for the first time since 1997-98.

It is also possible that Rangers will be the best supported club for the first time since that same season. Celtic are currently about 1,000 per game ahead but a crowd of around 32,000 or below v Motherwell will put Rangers in front and even if that doesn't happen this week yesterday's events mean it could occur before the end of the end of the season. I'm not saying it will happen as Celtic's attendance figures this season are weird and wonderful and they have a guaranteed full house for their match v Rangers but it is a possibility.

The SPL will definitely have the lowest figures since the present format was introduced and possibly the lowest since 1994-95 and possibly 1993-94.

Looking at the other divisions the 1st division is quite healthy at the moment thanks to Dundee's early figures, Inverness CT retaining a good support and big gates at Highland and Fife derbies. This division is on course for the best gates since 1999-2000 when of course it contained the clubs ranked 11-20 rather than 13-22 as at present and gates were naturally higher.

The 3rd division might break its previous worst or it might not. One big crowd in this division can really distort the averages. One thing's certain - but for the demotion of Livingston this season would have been the worst ever.

The 2nd has taken a disastrous drop. No club in this division currently averages as much as 700. This division will end with easily the worst figure since four divisions were introduced.

As far as individual clubs are concerned the SPL figures are quite shocking. It isn't just Celtic though with a drop of around 9,000 they are easily the worst. Of the eleven clubs in the division last season just two are showing increases this term and these are, perversely, Hearts and Falkirk (and we're talking 300 and 17 respectively). Aberdeen are down 2,000. So are Rangers. Dundee United are, surprisingly, 1,000 down. Hamilton have dropped 800, Hibs around 450. Motherwell are another surprise, down by a couple of hundred.

Now that the new ground novelty has worn off St Mirren have dropped by over 1,000 and Kilmarnock are down by fourteen per game. St Johnstone are drawing about 500 more than ICT did.

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