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Tommy Hutchison versus Graham Alexander

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:03 pm
by HibeeJibee
A discussion on the P&B site on Peter Shilton (and whether his huge 1,390 Senior career games record can ever be "broken") has broached a rather interesting aside.

According to the RSSSF Tommy Hutchison is 9th - in the all-time ranking - and the highest-ranked Scot more importantly:

However their totalling of 888 for Hutchison doesn't include domestic cups in Scotland or England (bar Coventry), nor career swansong in Hong Kong, nor European ties. Could've played for Scottish League XI too, I'd suppose.

Graham Alexander has according to Wikipedia (890... excludes FL Trophy etc.) and according to Soccerbase (922) played more than the 888 games and he has 40 Scotland caps to add as well. Plus a couple of Scotland B caps IIRC? Thus ~960>?

Can anyone provide accurate totals for Hutchison (excluding Hong Kong, perhaps) + an exact total for Alexander? Is he Scottish record-holder?

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:13 pm
by HibeeJibee
For clarity Soccerbase says 922 for Alexander of which 30 aren't League / FA Cup / League (i.e. 892 in those 3). Meanwhile: Wikipedia says 890 for him in those 3 competitions only, excluding 2010-11 (ie. a total of 893)...!!

Presuming 922 pretty accurate + 40 Scotland + 1? Scotland B = 963?

Hutchison threatened?

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:44 pm
by Scottish
HibeeJibee wrote:
Hutchison threatened?
More than threatened - by Graeme Armstrong. Litster gives 878 + 32 sub league appearances for 910 total. 50 + 3 for 53 League Cup, 62 + 2 for 64 Scottish Cup and 13 other (all Challenge Cup) for a grand total of 1038.

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:31 am
by HibeeJibee
Cheers. Someone had mentioned Armstrong over on the P&B... I suppose it can be contested whether he should be compared with Hutchison Alexander etc. (by merit of never having played in the top tier, nor receiving any caps).

Where would be the easiest place to get a total for Hutchison who must be in same ball-park?

Having 888 excluding Europe, cups + Hong Long suggests 1,050-1,000 IMO.

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:58 am
by jeroen
I think you can add the following to Hutchison's total. I think I've included all domestic cups, play-off matches, European matches, and Welsh Cup (Swansea)

Alloa 16
Blackpool 35
Manchester City 14
Burnley 24
Swansea 48
Scotland U-23 1
NASL play-off 5

Merthyr Tydfil 60 conference matches (Source, the Alliance to Conference book, numbers in Rothmans differ slightly, should this be included?)
1990-91 Conference matches only
1991-92 I don't have their Welsh Cup line-ups. 1 in the FA Cup qualifying round
1992-93 1 Welsh Cup (complete I think) Didn't play in the FA Cup
1993-94 Welsh Cup 2 matches (complete) + used sub in the Fa Cup 4Q against Crawley Town.
Didn't include the South Wales Senior Cup (Swansea and Merthyr)

Can't help you with Bulova

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:58 am
by Scottish
HibeeJibee wrote:I suppose it can be contested whether he should be compared with Hutchison Alexander etc. (by merit of never having played in the top tier, nor receiving any caps).
I'd suggest either you count top flight games only or all 'first class' matches. Certainly if you add in Hutchison at Alloa & the lower English divisions then I'd count Armstrong's games.

Another who must come close to 1,000 but probably falls just short is Sandy Jardine. I'm away from my records at the moment but I'll try and check it out when I can. In the meantime can anyone confirm a total for Jardine?

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:20 pm
by jeroen
Sandy Jardine

League 635
SC 83
LC 136
Others incl. Europe 70
Scotland 38
Scotland U23 5
Scottish League 2

969 in total (Litster, not the most recent one)