Scottish teams in Europe - or should I say - out of Europe

The place to discuss Scottish football
exile
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Post by exile » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:34 pm

Yes I agree the Souness revolution was a good thing financially - but if you look at the way European results went it coincided with a decline in standards. Dundee United reached the UEFA final in the 1st year of the said revolution, Rangers and Hearts reached quarter finals in the next 2 seasons but apart from Rangers excellent run in 1993 the results got steadily worse (mind you Souness had left by then!)

We also saw some excellent players in Scotland in that era - which in theory should have raised the standards of the rest. But somehow it didn't when it came to the crunch, in competition against clubs from other countries.

Back to the 60s - German clubs managed some good results in their regional era in the 50s and early 60s, and of course Germany won the World Cup in 1954. But there was no consistency either at club or national level and it wasn't until 1966 that a German club finally won a trophy. Mind you even today German clubs don't get the success that you would expect from the fact their league is the best supported in Europe - though they are now threatening to overtake a steadily declining Italy in the European rankings and re-enter the top 3 after an absence of many years.

Brazilian club football has always suffered from being fragmented between the different states and this partly explains why it is Argentinian and even Uruguayan clubs that until recently won the lion's share of South American honours.

Now Brazilian clubs are expected to spend half a season playing in the National League and the other half in the State leagues and Brazilian club football is not exactly in the best of health - hence the Brazilian diaspora - there is hardly a leading club in any country on Earth that doesn't feature a Brazilian player. It's not just that they are great players - they can't make a decent living in their own country.

Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:01 pm

A decline from the high spots of 1983 & 1987, yes. but compared to the period from 1974-83 I doubt it and certainly not when compared to the past decade. Other than Celtic's hammering by Neuchatel Xamax and Dundee United's crushing defeats in Antwerp and Arnhem there weren't any really horrific results. Definitely nothing like what came later. Skonto Riga is perhaps a defining moment. When what we thought would be a one-off was actually the beginning of a sequence. Since then we've had Bohemians, MY-PA 47 (twice!), Hafnarfjordur, Hacken, Vaduz (VADUZ!!!!!, record v Scottish clubs P4 W1 D2 L1 F3 A2), Derry City, Vetra Vilnius. And for the OF Zizkov & Artmedia.

Nothing like that happened in the Souness years. Look at the sides that eliminated Rangers from the European Cup. Steaua Bucharest, Bayern Munich, Red Star Belgrade. You could argue that up to and including 1992-93 their only 'bad' defeat was the away goals loss to Sparta Prague, in the sense they lost to a team they were expected to beat. Celtic's losses in the same competition in the same period were to Dinamo Kiev and Werder Bremen, both expected and respectable results.

Yes, it wasn't until 1966 when the Germans finally won a trophy but then again the European Cup was the preserve of Spain, Italy & Portugal. The same countries plus England had won the CWC and other than the Spanish and Italians there were victories for Yugoslavia & Hungary in the Fairs Cup. So they weren't exactly lagging behind a long field. If anything you could argue that the creation of the Bundesliga was an immediate boon to German football with European finalists four years running from 1965-68. Remember, only one of the first 21 European Cup winners was an English club yet the English champions would always, rightly, be considered in the reckoning. Same with the Germans.

MadMac
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Post by MadMac » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:04 pm

scottish wrote:
Nothing like that happened in the Souness years. Look at the sides that eliminated Rangers from the European Cup. Steaua Bucharest, Bayern Munich, Red Star Belgrade. You could argue that up to and including 1992-93 their only 'bad' defeat was the away goals loss to Sparta Prague, in the sense they lost to a team they were expected to beat. Celtic's losses in the same competition in the same period were to Dinamo Kiev and Werder Bremen, both expected and respectable results.
We've now reached a point where being eliminated by someone you've actually heard of previously is considered something of a "moral victory"....

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:31 pm

Similarly, a Scottish club signing a foreigner you`ve actually heard of is a coup.

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