Scottish football attendances

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lbb
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Scottish football attendances

Post by lbb » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:29 am

St. Johnstone v Aberdeen - 1,607
Dunfermline v Inverness - 1,594

When was the last time two top-flight games (albeit in different competitions) had sub-2,000 attendances in Scotland? Obviously both games were on Sky and this is a factor but these are alarming attendances. The Aberdeen attendance is like something from a Gretna game. We all laugh at the red-faced munchkins but they're usually noted for having one of the better away supports in Scotland. I thought the Scottish Cup replay was getting played behind closed doors.

I wonder how Scottish football recovers that situation. On the same night as the Scottish Cup match, Sky were showing Real Madrid v Barcelona. This Wednesday night, you can watch Liverpool take on Man City and then switch over for the return game in the Nou Camp. Why would you go and watch Dunfermline or St. Johnstone in these circumstances even if you lived in Dunfermline or Perth?

Are we now watching the final consequence of having English and Spanish (mostly) football shown live every week? Our game looks shabby, third-rate in comparison. People have more choices now. Unless you're a big fan, why would you go and watch Scottish games in freezing weather when you have genuine quality on TV every week? It's the question that's been around since TV began showing live games but this feels like the end game. Kids growing up in Scotland supporting Man Utd, Chelsea or Barcelona. How do you persuade them of the joys of Fir Park? Tough times, I think. A real apathy around the game just now. The clubs have a real fight on their hands but I'm not sure if enough of them appreciate it.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:54 am

lbb wrote:St. Johnstone v Aberdeen - 1,607
Dunfermline v Inverness - 1,594

When was the last time two top-flight games (albeit in different competitions) had sub-2,000 attendances in Scotland? Obviously both games were on Sky and this is a factor but these are alarming attendances. The Aberdeen attendance is like something from a Gretna game.
I think you just answered your own question. Most likely Gretna. St Johnstone have had five top flight league crowds lower than the Aberdeen game though only one since the post-1975 reconstruction when there were 1,501 in attendance for their match v Ayr United on March 20th 1976. The others were: 1,500 v St Mirren 11/3/1939, 1,090 v Clyde 22/12/1973, 1,000 v Hamilton 25/4/1936 and 1,000 v QoS 25/1/1939

Dunfermline have never had a lower Scottish Cup crowd when both teams were in the top division. You could also have added the 1,601 for the first match between ICT and Dunfermline which is also a low for an all top flight game in Inverness.

And yes, undoubtedly the easy availability of a better quality of football on TV is one reason (speaking as one who switched over from East End Park to the Bernabeu) but as ever economics is the key. As I have said many times before, have a look at the early to mid-1980s. Scottish football was competitive with Aberdeen and Dundee United winning trophies and others such as Hearts challenging. Our clubs did well in Europe and the national team qualified regularly for the World Cup. Yet crowds were at their lowest for fifty years. Aberdeen, for example, were watched by more in the modest season of 2001-02 than they were in the championship-winning season of 1979-80.

There is and has been from the end of the First World War onwards a clear correlation between attendances and unemployment figures.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by lbb » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:58 am

I understand economics being a factor (any chance The Roar of the Crowd will be available on a Lulu download?) but could the clubs do more? Hamilton and Partick got 2,400 from moving their game to a Friday night. Was that a temporary boost or could that be carried off permanently? Is the Saturday at 3pm model outdated? Playing games on freezing winter nights? That helpful? Allow people to buy drink in the ground?

It's no coincidence either that both games were live on Sky. I think the new contract was a mistake. Clubs are seeing the headline figure from Sky but not counting the lost money at the gate. The Scottish game isn't big enough to sustain the number of games Sky wants from it. And what do we get from the ESPN contract? In the St. Johnstone v Rangers match, one of the co-commentators, Craig Burley, spent the entire game slagging off the pitch, the players, the quality of football. And these guys are paying to sell the game! Media negativity isn't helping either. No-one is wanting cheerleaders to lie to people but the relentless talking down of the game here can't help.

The clubs need to examine their relationship with live TV, how the game is promoted in the media and when they play games (try and ensure, as much as possible, there is no clash with big Premiership games). I'm not a fan of a bigger league but the game looks like it's getting choked to death just now. Inverness-Dunfermline is a tough sell anyway but 2 games in the Cup and 4 games in the league. Even diehards will be sick of that one by the sixth meeting. We need to turn games into events and not just another fixture that will be repeated in six weeks.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:34 pm

To answer some of your points:

I don't hold publication rights to 'ROAR,' only copyright so - unlike all my subsequent books - I have no control as to whether it becomes available as a download or not.

Friday night? My guess is novelty value. Both 1st division matches that have been played on Fridays have been well attended. The Aberdeen SPL game did NOT draw a good crowd despite the almost universal press insistence that it had. In general though there is absolutely no reason why clubs should not play on Fridays if they want to. Police control of these fixtures is ridiculous. Clubs and police should co-operate of course but for the police to hold what amounts to absolute veto over when sporting fixtures should be played is inimical to a democratic society. There were matches played last Friday in Belgium, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Turkey and France for example.

Yes, what clubs gain from TV they lose from the gate - though more so in SPL matches v the OF than in the instances cited. In 2005-06 (the first season I started to compare OF and non-OF fixtures) average crowds for home matches v the Old Firm were:
Aberdeen 16,724
Dundee United 11,617
Hearts 17,143
Hibernian 16,091
Inverness CT 7,425
Kilmarnock 11,383
Motherwell 10,498

Comparing only the clubs that were in the SPL in both seasons, last season they were:
Aberdeen 13,378
Dundee United 11,610
Hearts 16,172
Hibernian 14,163
Inverness CT 7,016
Kilmarnock 10,767
Motherwell 9,316

It wouldn't take much checking to confirm my suspicions that even the earlier figure is down from those enjoyed around the establishment of the SPL. Oh, and I made a mistake with St Johnstone's sub-2,000 gates. Next post will correct.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:39 pm

Sub-2,000 top flight league crowds since the 1975 reconstruction

Following had had NO sub-2,000 crowds: Aberdeen, Ayr United, Celtic, Dundee, Dundee United, Dunfermline Athletic, Falkirk, Livingston, Raith Rovers, Rangers. Bear in mind too that there are extenuating circumstances for some of the figures below such as Gretna and Inverness CT playing home matches in Motherwell and Aberdeen respectively.

AIRDRIEONIANS
1,975 v Dunfermline 12/11/91
1,954 v Dundee United 26/10/91
1,912 v Dunfermline 11/4/92
1,737 v Hearts 25/4/81
1,737 v Dundee United 9/2/82
1,625 v St Mirren 21/4/82
1,434 v Morton 2/5/81
1,183 v Morton 11/5/82

CLYDEBANK
1,971 v Ayr United 22/12/77
1,918 v Motherwell 12/10/85
1,846 v Aberdeen 27/1/87
1,839 v Dundee United 23/11/85
1,729 v St Mirren 13/11/85
1,618 v Falkirk 30/8/86
1,575 v Falkirk 1/1/87
1,534 v Dundee United 19/4/86
1,431 v Dundee United 13/8/86
1,407 v Dundee 23/12/85
1,386 v St Mirren 22/3/86
1,376 v Dundee 4/10/86
1,356 v Hibernian 3/12/86
1,342 v Dundee United 13/12/86
1,326 v Motherwell 22/11/86
1,322 v Hamilton 28/2/87
1,273 v Motherwell 2/5/87
1,260 v Ayr United 29/4/78
1,250 v St Mirren 24/3/87
1,172 v Hibernian 9/5/87
1,112 v Hamilton 11/10/86
1,072 v Motherwell 5/4/86
1,030 v Dundee United 2/5/78
1,030 v Dundee 7/2/87

DUMBARTON
1,722 v Dundee 1/1/85
1,684 v St Mirren 9/2/85
1,676 v Morton 13/10/84
1,524 v Dundee United 8/12/84
1,487 v Dundee 25/8/84
979 v Morton 16/3/85
818 v Dundee United 27/4/85

GRETNA
1,730 v Aberdeen 26/12/07
1,624 v Dundee United 22/9/07
1,609 v Falkirk 19/1/08
1,545 v Kilmarnock 27/2/08
1,544 v Hearts 25/11/07
1,516 v Kilmarnock 15/9/07
1,020 v Inverness CT 27/10/07
1,090 v Hearts 13/5/08
751 v St Mirren 9/4/08
501 v Dundee United 6/3/08
431 v Inverness CT 5/4/08

HAMILTON
1,957 v St Mirren 2/5/87
1,941 v Dundee 8/10/86
1,643 v St Mirren 6/5/89

HEARTS
1,866 v Kilmarnock 4/4/81

HIBERNIAN
1,191 v Partick Thistle 5/5/80

INVERNESS CALEDONIAN THISTLE
1,972 v Dunfermline 15/8/04
1,346 v Kilmarnock 3/1/05
1,279 v Livingston 30/10/04
1,254 v Dundee 27/10/04
1,125 v Dundee United 23/11/04
1,117 v Motherwell 3/10/04

KILMARNOCK
1,891 v Dundee 22/1/83
1,854 v Morton 6/11/82
1,849 v Airdrie 28/3/81
1,834 v Dundee United 12/2/83
1,643 v Dundee United 30/4/77
1,543 v Partick Thistle 20/4/77
1,445 v Hearts 24/3/81
1,262 v Partick Thistle 18/4/81
1,230 v Morton 19/3/83
1,203 v Motherwell 14/5/83
1,049 v St Mirren 27/4/83
973 v Morton 15/4/81

MORTON
1,987 v Dundee United 18/12/82
1,958 v Hibernian 14/4/82
1,949 v Falkirk 7/10/87
1,928 v Dundee 2/4/83
1,920 v Dundee 20/11/82
1,898 v Dundee 6/10/84
1,896 v Hibernian 15/5/82
1,865 v Hibernian 4/12/82
1,846 v Dundee 16/12/87
1,792 v Dundee United 7/4/82
1,770 v Dumbarton 15/12/84
1,751 v St Mirren 14/5/83
1,677 v Hibernian 16/4/83
1,520 v Dundee United 30/4/88
1,512 v Dundee 23/2/85
1,447 v Hibernian 4/5/85
909 v Dundee United 13/3/85

MOTHERWELL
1,870 v Dundee United 28/4/84
1,866 v St Mirren 21/4/84
1,808 v Dundee 28/3/84

PARTICK THISTLE
1,894 v Hibernian 23/4/80
1,779 v Airdrie 7/4/82
1,601 v Kilmarnock 21/2/81

ST JOHNSTONE
1,947 v Motherwell 17/12/83
1,691 v St Mirren 31/3/84
1,607 v Aberdeen 13/12/11
1,501 v Ayr United 20/3/76

ST MIRREN
1,965 v Falkirk 27/1/87
1,918 v Hibernian 28/3/92
1,431 v Dundee United 25/4/92
1,077 v Dunfermline 2/5/92

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by lbb » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:36 pm

I agree that the police have far too much influence on football fixtures. You'd think Glasgow was a normally tranquil city until the Old Firm meet, the way the police rabbit on about it.

I would expect clubs like Clydebank, Gretna, Dumbarton and Hamilton to have such low attendances as there simply isn't enough fans even in the good times for these clubs. Surprised at Hearts and Hibs though I note these were at the start of the Iron Lady's Revolution so presumably economic factors again. What happened to St. Mirren in 1992? I know they were relegated that season but did their fans all chuck it towards the end of the season?

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:52 pm

Highest post-1975 top division crowds. Against the Old Firm and non-OF.Highest top flight ever in brackets where applicable Some clubs (eg Clydebank) will have had higher non-OF attendances in the lower divisions during this period. This is not as accurate a guide to crowds as low figures are, as many clubs have either switched to smaller venues or converted existing stadia to all-seaters with a consequent reduction in capacity. Even before then capacity reductions were being established following the Ibrox disaster in 1971.

ABERDEEN
26,830 v Celtic 17/9/77 (44,414 v Rangers 3/4/48)
24,208 v Dundee United 2/1/78 (40,000 v Hibernian 13/8/47)

AIRDRIEONIANS
12,980 v Celtic 21/3/81 (26,000 v Rangers 7/1/61)
6,337 v Aberdeen 10/8/91 (also 7,560 v Hibernian play-off 22/5/97) (20,000 v Hibernian 3/3/51 & also 20,000 B Division v Dundee 28/12/46)

AYR UNITED
16,838 v Rangers 11/10/75 (25,225 v Rangers 13/9/69)
7,938 v Kilmarnock 1/1/77 (19,000 v Kilmarnock 26/3/60)

CELTIC
61,297 v Dundee 23/4/88 (62,236 v Aberdeen 6/11/71)
60,752 v Rangers 27/12/99 (83,500 v Rangers 20/9/30 & 1/1/38)

CLYDEBANK
10,286 v Celtic 16/8/86 (N/A)
5,837 v Hearts 1/2/86 (N/A)

DUMBARTON
9,607 v Rangers 18/8/84 (15,481 v Rangers 11/1/75)
5,064 v Hibernian 6/4/85 (10,000 v Falkirk 10/12/21)

DUNDEE
29,106 V Dundee United 14/5/83 (34,000 v Aberdeen 3/9/50)
18,723 v Rangers 17/3/87 (39,975 v Rangers 3/1/49)

DUNDEE UNITED
24,264 v Rangers 21/4/79 (all-time best league crowd)
21,944 v Aberdeen 2/1/85 (23,517 v St Johnstone 30/11/29)

DUNFERMLINE ATHLETIC
19,580 v Celtic 28/10/89 (27,816 v Celtic 30/4/68 - official figure, probably around 33,000 in total inside the ground)
13,873 v Hearts 26/9/87 (also 15,977 v Aberdeen play-off 25/5/95) (19,816 v Hearts 6/10/62)

FALKIRK
17,038 v Rangers 21/11/87 (22,618 v Rangers 25/8/37)
12,835 v Aberdeen 13/5/95 (20,570 v Hearts 26/2/55)

GRETNA
6,137 v Rangers 6/1/08 (all-time best league crowd) (N/A)
3,758 v Motherwell 25/8/07 (N/A)

HAMILTON
10,710 v Celtic 5/11/88 (21,000 v Rangers 15/1/21)
5,704 v Motherwell 3/1/89 (20,000 v Motherwell 1/1/27 & 2/1/39)

HEARTS
29,091 v Rangers 7/2/87 (50,000 v Rangers 17/3/56)
28,992 v Hibernian 2/1/88 (49,000 v Hibernian 1/1/55)

HIBERNIAN
32,923 v Hearts 1/1/76 (65,840 v Hearts 2/1/50)
26,547 v Rangers 22/11/75 (60,500 v Rangers 17/1/53)

INVERNESS CALEDONIAN THISTLE
9,530 v Aberdeen 16/10/04 (all-time best league crowd) (N/A)
8,736 v Celtic 22/8/04 (N/A)

KILMARNOCK
19,162 v Rangers 6/11/93 (32,893 v Rangers 4/1/69)
15,300 v Motherwell 1/5/99 (27,992 v St Mirren 1/1/55)

LIVINGSTON
10,024 v Celtic 18/8/01(all-time best league crowd) (N/A)
10,016 v Hibernian 30/9/01 (N/A)

MORTON
19,448 v Celtic 20/10/79 (40,000 v Rangers 25/4/49 - at Love Street, best at Cappielow 23,500 v Celtic 29/4/22)
8,681 v St Mirren 3/11/79 (18,000 v St Mirren 18/9/51)

MOTHERWELL
25,241 v Rangers (35,000 v Rangers 14/8/48)
11,201 v Dundee United 30/8/98 (25,000 v Hibernian 14/10/50)

PARTICK THISTLE
28,437 v Rangers 2/1/78 (49,838 v Rangers 18/2/22)
11,844 v Aberdeen 26/11/77 (34,000 v Hearts 31/1/48)

RAITH ROVERS
9,745 v Rangers 15/4/97 (24,800 v Rangers 19/11/49)
6,762 v Dunfermline Athletic 16/11/96 (23,000 v Hibernian 10/9/49)

RANGERS
70,964 v Celtic 30/8/75 (118,567 v Celtic 2/1/39)
50,488 v Aberdeen 1/10/06 (101,000 v Hibernian 29/4/50)

ST JOHNSTONE
11,703 v Celtic 20/9/75 (20,190 v Rangers 6/11/71)
10,575 v Dundee 23/5/99 (25,474 v Dundee 28/4/62)

ST MIRREN
24,596 v Rangers 17/9/77 (45,000 v Rangers 6/9/52)
13,798 v Hibernian 24/11/79 (George Best debut for Hibs) (35,000 v Motherwell 2/1/50)

Best top division crowds for clubs who have played top flight football pre-1975 but not since then ( v OF and non-OF)

ABERCORN
7,000 v Celtic 12/9/1891
5,000 v St Mirren 19/9/1891, Hearts 3/9/1892

ALBION ROVERS
25,000 v Celtic 4/9/48
14,000 v Airdrieonians 10/9/21 & Motherwell 24/9/21 (also 17,500 B Division v Airdrionians 1/1/55)

ALLOA ATHLETIC
10,783 v Celtic 19/8/22
8,000 v Hibernian 28/10/22 (also 8,000 B Division v Stirling Albion 6/1/51)

ARBROATH
12,800 v Aberdeen 9/9/36 (also 12,092 Div 2 v Dundee United 30/3/29)
11,813 v Celtic 9/11/68

BO’NESS
9,000 v Falkirk 13/8/27
6,000 v Celtic 26/11/27

CAMBUSLANG
4,000 v Rangers 23/8/1890
3,000 v Vale of Leven 16/8/90

CLYDE
36,000 v Rangers 25/12/20
28,000 v Hibernian 25/10/52

CLYDEBANK (Original)
23,193 v Celtic 22/8/25
10,000 v Clyde 18/8/17, Morton 4/1/19, Dundee United 3/10/25

COWDENBEATH
20,000 v Rangers 11/10/24
17,810 v Hearts 16/8/24

COWLAIRS
2,500 v Celtic 29/4/1891, Hibernian (Div 2) 17/3/1894

EAST FIFE
22,515 v Raith Rovers 2/1/50
20,737 v Rangers 27/11/48

EAST STIRLINGSHIRE
7,615 v Celtic 2/11/63
6,445 v Falkirk 1/1/64 (also 10,000 v St Mirren 16/11/35, 7,149 v Morton 4/5/63 & 6,500 v Alloa 25/3/22 - all Div 2)

LEITH ATHLETIC
21,000 v Celtic 8/8/31
15,000 v Hearts 21/2/31 (also 18,079 Div 2 v East Fife 29/3/30)

PORT GLASGOW ATHLETIC
8,000 v Celtic 2/12/1905, Rangers 25/8/1906
7,000 v Morton 27/9/1902 & 29/8/1903

QUEEN OF THE SOUTH
21,300 v Rangers 8/11/47
16,000 v Hibernian 3/10/53

QUEEN’S PARK
60,000 v Rangers 12/1/29
25,000 v Hearts 31/1/14, Partick Thistle 8/2/19 (also 27,602 B Div v Kilmarnock 14/1/50 & 26,000 Div 2 v Clydebank 24/3/23)

RENTON
6,000 v Rangers 5/11/1892
4,000 v St Mirren 3/9/1892

ST BERNARD’S
15,000 v Hearts 6/4/1895 & also Div 2 v Hibernian 19/11/32
8,000 v Rangers 26/8/1893, v Celtic 10/11/1894 & 12/9/1896

STIRLING ALBION
25,800 v Celtic 12/11/49
20,000 v Hearts 10/12/49

THIRD LANARK
40,000 v Rangers 28/3/32, v Celtic 3/3/51 & 28/2/53
31,500 v Hearts 25/12/48

VALE OF LEVEN
5,000 v Rangers 17/1/1891 (also 7,000 Div 2 v Queen’s Park 20/1/23)
4,000 v Dumbarton 4/10/1890 (also 4,000 v Dumbarton 20/11/1909, 20/8/1910, 16/11/1912, 30/12/22 & v Dunfermline 5/10/21 - all Div 2)

Clubs that have played league football since 1975 but never in the top division. Highest and lowest league crowds.

AIRDRIE UNITED
5,709 v Morton (2nd div) 15/5/04
437 v Forfar Athletic (2nd div) 22/2/11

ALBION ROVERS
2,682 v Airdrieonians (1st div) 2/1/1990
112 v Montrose (2nd div) 25/1/1994

ALLOA ATHLETIC
5,050 v Cowdenbeath (2nd div) 2/5/1992
217 v Albion Rovers (3rd div) 3/12/1996

ANNAN ATHLETIC
1,343 V Dumbarton (3rd div) 9/5/2009
278 v Montrose (3rd div) 13/4/2010

ARBROATH
8,389 v Hearts (1st div) 29/4/1978
172 v East Stirlingshire (3rd div) 4/3/1997

BERWICK RANGERS
4,457 v Hearts (1st div) 25/8/1979
71 v Arbroath (2nd div) 25/4/1992 (at Bayview, lowest Shielfield 178 v East Stirlingshire (2nd div) 2/4/1977)

BRECHIN CITY
2,404 v Ayr United (1st div play-off) 22/5/2011 - highest regular league game 2,166 v Dundee (1st div) 27/10/1990
202 v Meadowbank Thistle (2nd div) 14/2/1976

CLYDE
5,356 v Hamilton (1st div) 5/2/1994
268 v Brechin City (2nd div) 6/10/1976

COWDENBEATH
3,448 v Brechin City (3rd div) 5/5/2001
84 v Stranraer (2nd div) 22/4/1989

EAST FIFE
7,774 v Hearts (1st div) 2/1/1978
213 v Brechin City (2nd div) 30/3/2010

EAST STIRLINGSHIRE
5,762 v Dundee (1st div) 2/5/1981
91 v Montrose (2nd div) 21/10/1989

ELGIN CITY
1,552 v Hamilton (3rd div) 12/8/2000
203 v Queen’s Park (3rd div) 30/3/2010

FORFAR ATHLETIC
3,619 v St Johnstone (1st div) 2/1/1990
270 v Albion Rovers (3rd div) 26/2/2008

MONTROSE
3,708 v Arbroath (1st div)1/1/1976
165 v Dumbarton (3rd div) 27/3/2001

PETERHEAD
3,700 v Partick Thistle (1st div play-off) 14/5/ 2006. Also 2,717 v Morton (1st div play-off 6/5/2006). Highest in regular season 1,693 v Albion Rovers (3rd div) 3/5/2003
303 v Clyde (3rd div) 30/3/2010

QUEEN OF THE SOUTH
6,158 v Morton (2nd div) 27/4/2002
266 v Ross County (1st div) 26/4/2011

QUEEN’S PARK
4,019 v Partick Thistle (2nd div) 9/9/2000
238 v Ross County (3rd div) 2/3/1996

ROSS COUNTY
6,216 v Gretna (1st div) 28/4/2007
741 v Albion Rovers (3rd div) 17/3/1998

STENHOUSEMUIR
3,460 v Dunfermline Athletic (2nd div) 29/4/1986
170 v Stranraer (2nd div) 4/10/1980

STIRLING ALBION
6,728 v Hearts (1st div) 24/9/1977
253 v Forfar Athletic (2nd div) 10/3/1982

STRANRAER
2,778 v Morton (2nd div) 30/4/2005
145 v Elgin City (3rd div) 16/3/2010

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Skyline Drifter » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:58 pm

scottish wrote:QUEEN OF THE SOUTH
6,158 v Morton (2nd div) 27/4/2002
266 v Ross County (1st div) 26/4/2011
I know you are not suggesting otherwise but I feel compelled to highlight that the latter was a rearranged game order by the SFL (after Ross County kicked and stamped their feet) to be played in Stirling on three days notice, and a third attempt at playing the same fixture.

Whilst it was our "home" fixture, it was to all intents and purposes played neutrally with Stirling Albion handling all the arrangements and administration.

What is our lowest at Palmerston? I imagine there were several of well below 500 in the mid 80's.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:19 pm

Fair point. My error. I can find 39 sub-500 home league attendances (not including Ross County), the first ones coming as surprisingly early as April 1967 - 444 v Queen's Park, 19/4/67 & 392 v East Stirlingshire 22/4/67. There was a crowd of 491 v Stirling Albion on 2/5/1979 and the other 36 were in the 1980s and 1990s. Perhaps surprisingly there were more (22) in the 1990s than the 1980s (14). The lowest - the Ross County match aside - is 310 v Arbroath 20/3/1993

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:28 pm

By way of compensation I can find 83 five-figure league crowds at Palmerston Park, the highest being 21,300 v Rangers 8/11/1947 and the last one being 19,184 also v Rangers on 6/10/1962 - just four and a half years before the first sub-500 figure. 67 of these crowds were in the first dozen post-war years (1946-58), fifteen in the last six pre-war seasons (1933-39) and the 1962-63 one the outlier.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:23 pm

SD's post set me thinking about low crowds

Sub-500 league crowds - current league clubs, official home fixtures including any played elsewhere (to end of 2010-11).

705 Albion Rovers
703 Stenhousemuir
616 Cowdenbeath
556 Brechin City
479 East Stirlingshire
478 Berwick Rangers
422 Montrose
348 Stranraer
320 Forfar Athletic
289 Queen’s Park
259 Alloa Athletic
256 Livingston (all bar five as Meadowbank Thistle and all played at Meadowbank)
205 Arbroath
149 Dumbarton
131 East Fife
126 Stirling Albion
115 Elgin City
55 Clyde, Hamilton Academical
44 Peterhead
40 Queen of the South
22 Annan Athletic
13 Dundee United (inc four as Dundee Hibs)
8 Raith Rovers
3 Ayr United
2 Aberdeen, Airdrie United
1 Dundee, Dunfermline Athletic, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone
0 Celtic, Falkirk, Hearts, Hibernian, Inverness CT, Morton, Motherwell, Partick Thistle, Rangers, Ross County, St Mirren

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:07 pm

At the other end of the scale:

Five-figure home league gates, Current league clubs to end of 2010-11

1657 Rangers
1531 Celtic
1251 Hearts
1183 Aberdeen
903 Hibernian
655 Dundee
536 Partick Thistle
369 Dundee United
365 St Mirren
362 Motherwell
333 Kilmarnock
261 Clyde
257 Queen’s Park
252 Falkirk
181 Morton
162 Raith Rovers
131 Dunfermline Athletic
108 Ayr United
93 St Johnstone
85 East Fife
84 Hamilton Academical
83 Queen of the South
48 Stirling Albion
31 Albion Rovers
20 Cowdenbeath
12 Dumbarton
5 Arbroath
3 Livingston
1 Alloa Athletic, East Stirlingshire
0 Airdrie United, Annan Athletic, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Elgin City, Forfar Athletic, Inverness CT, Montrose, Peterhead, Ross County, Stenhousemuir, Stranraer

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:26 pm

To complete the picture:

Former league clubs five figure home crowds
242 Third Lanark
147 Airdrieonians
15 Clydebank
7 Leith Athletic
4 St Bernard’s
0 Abercorn, Armadale, Arthurlie, Ayr FC, Ayr Parkhouse, Bathgate, Bo’ness, Broxburn United, Cambuslang, Clackmannan, Cowlairs, Dundee Wanderers, Edinburgh City, Gretna, Johnstone, King’s Park, Linthouse, Lochgelly United, Nithsdale Wanderers, Northern, Port Glasgow Athletic, Renton, Thistle, Vale of Leven

Former league clubs sub-500 home crowds
97 Edinburgh City
33 Gretna
16 Armadale, Third Lanark
13 St Bernard’s
9 King’s Park
8 Leith Athletic
5 Johnstone
4 Abercorn, Clydebank
3 Bo’ness, Port Glasgow Athletic
2 Arthurlie, Ayr Parkhouse
1 Ayr FC, Bathgate, Cambuslang, Lochgelly United, Renton, Thistle, Vale of Leven
0 Airdrieonians, Broxburn United, Clackmannan, Cowlairs, Dundee Wanderers, Linthouse, Nithsdale Wanderers, Northern

Note: I have excluded clubs that played only in the Third Division 1923-26 as there is insufficient data to compile any meaningful figures. The number of sub-500 crowds for some clubs that played in the Second Division pre-WW1 is also likely to be higher than the figures here as full details are not available. I’m confident the five-figure details are reasonably accurate.

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:40 pm

I think I may have done this before but it needs updating, certainly for the OF if nobody else. All figures to the end of 2010-11.

100,000+
2 Rangers

90,000+
4 Rangers

80,000+
15 Rangers
4 Celtic

70,000+
28 Rangers
11 Celtic

60,000+
53 Rangers
45 Celtic
3 Hibernian
1 Queen’s Park

50,000+
292 Celtic
158 Rangers
9 Hibernian
1 Hearts, Queen’s Park

40,000+
593 Rangers
415 Celtic
35 Hibernian
29 Hearts
10 Partick Thistle
4 Aberdeen, St Mirren
3 Queen’s Park, Third Lanark

30,000+
868 Rangers
591 Celtic
102 Hearts
89 Hibernian
55 Partick Thistle
28 Aberdeen
22 Dundee
19 Third Lanark
18 St Mirren
15 Clyde
14 Queen’s Park
9 Motherwell
5 Kilmarnock

20,000+
1177 Rangers
958 Celtic
358 Hearts
253 Hibernian
192 Aberdeen
166 Partick Thistle
125 Dundee
76 St Mirren
64 Clyde
53 Motherwell
50 Third Lanark
43 Queen’s Park
30 Kilmarnock
19 Dundee United
16 Airdrieonians
15 Falkirk, Raith Rovers
8 Dunfermline Athletic
7 East Fife, Morton
5 Hamilton Academical
3 Clydebank (1), Queen of the South, St Johnstone, Stirling Albion
2 Albion Rovers, Ayr United
1 Cowdenbeath, Leith Athletic

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Re: Scottish football attendances

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:16 am

For matches in European competitions, including Super Cups where official and World Club championship and based on home club whether played at regular ground or not.

100,000+
1 Celtic

90,000+
1 Celtic

80,000+
9 Rangers
3 Celtic

70,000+
16 Rangers
13 Celtic

60,000+
28 Rangers
23 Celtic

50,000+
68 Celtic
40 Rangers

40,000+
110 Rangers
93 Celtic
2 Hibernian

30,000+
137 Rangers
117 Celtic
8 Hibernian
3 Dundee
2 Hearts
1 Aberdeen

20,000+
148 Rangers
126 Celtic
24 Aberdeen
15 Hibernian
9 Hearts
7 Dundee United
6 Dundee
3 Dunfermline Athletic, Kilmarnock

10,000+
149 Rangers
131 Celtic
49 Aberdeen
35 Hibernian
34 Hearts
32 Dundee United
15 Dunfermline Athletic
12 Dundee
10 Kilmarnock
5 St Mirren
3 Partick Thistle
2 St Johnstone
1 Motherwell, Raith Rovers

-10,000
22 Dundee United
10 Kilmarnock, Motherwell
7 Dunfermline Athletic, Hibernian
5 Aberdeen, Dundee
3 St Johnstone
2 Hearts, Livingston, Partick Thistle, Raith Rovers, St Mirren
1 Airdrieonians, Celtic, Falkirk, Gretna, Morton, Queen of the South, Rangers

-5,000
3 Motherwell
2 Hibernian, Partick Thistle
1 Celtic, Dundee United, Queen of the South, Rangers,
0 Aberdeen, Airdrieonians, Dundee, Dunfermline Athletic, Falkirk, Gretna, Hearts, Kilmarnock, Livingston, Morton, Raith Rovers, St Johnstone, St Mirren

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