Back in 1963

The place to discuss Scottish football
nightfire
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 pm
Contact:

Back in 1963

Post by nightfire » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Here's a trip down memory lane - they don't make them like this anymore :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2kuouPV_Fk

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Amazing stuff. Archie with hair, shaky cameras that focused on one commentator while another was talking. The two pigeon fanciers. On the plus side good coverage of both divisions. But those accents!!! Morningside meets Bearsden in Knightsbridge.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:56 pm

The same user - obviously a Hearts fan - (as well as a strange mix of Abba, Glen Campbell, Whitney Houston & Take That) has a load of other stuff including Third Lanark v Hearts 1962, Hearts v Hibs 1959, v Celtic & Rangers in 1966, v Hibs 1973 - no, not THAT one, the one played later in the year in the 1973-74 season and lots of others. There are also links to 1960s English games and 1960s to 1990s European matches, including Ajax v Celtic in 1971.

And seeing as the guy (or am I being presumptive?) also includes a link to a German TV programme from 1966 featuring a belting performance from the late great Steve Marriott & the rest of the lads - Kenny Jones, Ian McLagan & Ronnie Lane - in The Small Faces, I'll forget the Take That link.

Interestingly enough the Thirds-Hearts game proves the theory - disputed by some younger fans - that most clubs used OF songs (the non-sectarian ones that is) in the 1960s and adapted them to their own team. The away fans can be clearly heard singing 'Hail, Hail, The Hearts Are Here.' Not something you'd hear these days.

nightfire
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by nightfire » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:33 pm

Some crackers in there to watch - I wonder where he got the old Sportsreel footage

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:19 pm

Maybe he has a BBC connection? The 1959 Edinburgh derby with Bob Crampsey commentating is of remarkably good quality.

The date is wrong for Sportsreel though. These matches were played on September 7th, not 9th. They were the second round of league matches that season.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:56 pm

For the record: the results from the day of the Sportsreel programme, Sep 7th 1963. As you'll see these were derby or as close to derby as possible fixtures with the games at Dumfries and Berwick the odd ones out. Because the Second Division contained nineteen teams one club missed out each week and this week it was Cowdebeath. The reverse fixtures were scheduled for New Year's Day 1964.

Division One
Aberdeen 2 (Cummings 19, Fraser 70) Dundee 4 (Gilzean 3, 41, Cameron 63, Penman 66) 12,117
Dundee United 3 (Briggs 34 pen, Gillespie 60, Carlyle 75) St Johnstone 1 (McKinven 22) 10,924
Falkirk 1 (Maxwell 4) East Stirlingshire 0 6,360
Hearts 4 (Ferguson 15, Wallace 35, 55, Davidson 75) Hibernian 2 (Baker 40, 57) 29,173
Kilmarnock 2 (Black 75, 80) St Mirren 0 7,247
Motherwell 3 (Roberts 27, Lindsay 29, McBride 83) Airdrieonians 0 7,001
Queen of the South 1 (Currie 44) Dunfermline Athletic 2 (Kerray 41, T Callaghan 50) 4,856
Rangers 2 (McLean 52, Brand 66) Celtic 1 (Chalmers 13) 57,276
Third Lanark 3 (McMorran 6 pen, 65, Murray 82) Partick Thistle 2 (Harvey pen 28, Hainey 88) 6,208

Division Two
Albion Rovers 3 (Innes 18, Henderson 35, McLeod 64) Hamilton Academical 3 (Currie 18, 20, Mann 24) 899
Alloa Athletic 1 (Cameron 34 pen) Stenhousemuir 2 (Dackers 24,42) 954
Berwick Rangers 0 Stranraer 3 (H Goldie, D Goldie, ?) 1,461
Clyde 1 (Hood 42 pen) Queen's Park 0 2,160
Dumbarton 5 (Halliday 7, 35, Hodgson 78, 85, Fraser) Stirling Albion 2 (Gilmour 20, Lawlor 50) 1,275
Forfar Athletic 1 (McCrae) Arbroath 2 (Morrison, ?) 1,231
Montrose 4 (Slater 35, Gilroy 40, ?, ?) Brechin City 0 1,604
Morton 2 (Byrne 44, McGraw 69) Ayr United 0 6,985
Raith Rovers 1 (Gilpin 17) East Fife 1 (Aitken 23) 3,406

With two games played three teams had maximum points. The Evening Times table is incorrect as under the goal average rules of the time Kilmarnock led from Dunfermline & Hearts. Similarly at the bottom it was Queen of the South, East Stirlingshire and Airdrieonians who were pointless.

In Division Two Morton and Clyde both had maximum points after three games with Alloa Athletic, Berwick Rangers & Forfar Athletic all on zero points. Forfar had played three, the others two, and had the worst goal average.

The Scottish Qualifying Cup opened the same day. I recall some queries on here some time ago about Shawfield's home ground. This was their last ever home match in the competition and on this occasion at least they played at Quay Road Park, Rutherglen. They beat Whithorn 5-1 before losing away to Wigtown & Bladnoch 4-0 in the next round.

First Division gates totalled 141,162 - an average of 15,685. In the Second Division it was 19,975 for an average of 2,219. Bear in mind that the authorities were planning reconstruction because of falling gates yet the total for the two divisions was 161,137 - 15,000 more than last weekend when both OF clubs were at home and 21 league games were played as opposed to the 18 in 1963-64.

Rob R
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Rob R » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:38 am

When the interviewer was asking the two pidgeon fancier brothers about the burds, I half expected Frank Mc Avennie doing a walk on part.

prorege
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by prorege » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:01 am

Poor Alistair Dewar . . . or Alistair 'Dour' as he was known.

He never ever got to see a decent game. He was still on the tea-time version in the early 70s, usually having to suffer Hearts or Hibs at home, and invariably describing the game as 'very disappointing'.

Presumably for the the 1963 edition, with Hearts v Hibs a featured game, they sent him off to Brockville.

prorege
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by prorege » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:05 am

These were posted on a Rangers website - the two legs of the Rangers v Slavia Sofia tie in the late 60s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzGrhRiLSsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9uKbFaz9C4

For the away league, all sources seem to give the attendance as 45,000. TV evidences suggests it was more like 10,000.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:47 pm

prorege wrote:
For the away league, all sources seem to give the attendance as 45,000. TV evidences suggests it was more like 10,000.
I have it as 20,000 compared to 13,000 v Aberdeen & 12,000 v Kilmarnock two and three seasons later respectively.

Townfan
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Townfan » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:14 pm

Was Alistair Dewar not sacked after Hearts beat Celtic 4-1 in 1972 for being too enthusiastic or at least reprimanded or is my memory hazy?

MadMac
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by MadMac » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:08 am

Townfan wrote:Was Alistair Dewar not sacked after Hearts beat Celtic 4-1 in 1972 for being too enthusiastic or at least reprimanded or is my memory hazy?
I have a vague recollection of something along these lines. The game in question was an end of season affair which meant nothing to Celtic - the league was already won. However, it was particularly notable for the fact that the Celtic Supporters' association had called for a boycott of the game over parking arrangements at Tynecastle, which were poor (buses were parked a long way away). Jock Stein, on the other hand, called on people to turn out to support the team. In the event, most heeded the boycott call in a crowd that barely broke 10,000.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:35 pm

It was a 'nothing' match for Hearts too as they were too far behind to qualify for Europe. The crowd of 10,124 was the lowest for the fixture between 1962-63 & 1975-76 inclusive

Angusfifer
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Angusfifer » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:58 am

scottish wrote:For the record: the results from the day of the Sportsreel programme, Sep 7th 1963. As you'll see these were derby or as close to derby as possible fixtures with the games at Dumfries and Berwick the odd ones out. Because the Second Division contained nineteen teams one club missed out each week and this week it was Cowdebeath. The reverse fixtures were scheduled for New Year's Day 1964.

Division One
Aberdeen 2 (Cummings 19, Fraser 70) Dundee 4 (Gilzean 3, 41, Cameron 63, Penman 66) 12,117
Dundee United 3 (Briggs 34 pen, Gillespie 60, Carlyle 75) St Johnstone 1 (McKinven 22) 10,924
Falkirk 1 (Maxwell 4) East Stirlingshire 0 6,360
Hearts 4 (Ferguson 15, Wallace 35, 55, Davidson 75) Hibernian 2 (Baker 40, 57) 29,173
Kilmarnock 2 (Black 75, 80) St Mirren 0 7,247
Motherwell 3 (Roberts 27, Lindsay 29, McBride 83) Airdrieonians 0 7,001
Queen of the South 1 (Currie 44) Dunfermline Athletic 2 (Kerray 41, T Callaghan 50) 4,856
Rangers 2 (McLean 52, Brand 66) Celtic 1 (Chalmers 13) 57,276
Third Lanark 3 (McMorran 6 pen, 65, Murray 82) Partick Thistle 2 (Harvey pen 28, Hainey 88) 6,208

Division Two
Albion Rovers 3 (Innes 18, Henderson 35, McLeod 64) Hamilton Academical 3 (Currie 18, 20, Mann 24) 899
Alloa Athletic 1 (Cameron 34 pen) Stenhousemuir 2 (Dackers 24,42) 954
Berwick Rangers 0 Stranraer 3 (H Goldie, D Goldie, ?) 1,461
Clyde 1 (Hood 42 pen) Queen's Park 0 2,160
Dumbarton 5 (Halliday 7, 35, Hodgson 78, 85, Fraser) Stirling Albion 2 (Gilmour 20, Lawlor 50) 1,275
Forfar Athletic 1 (McCrae) Arbroath 2 (Morrison, ?) 1,231
Montrose 4 (Slater 35, Gilroy 40, ?, ?) Brechin City 0 1,604
Morton 2 (Byrne 44, McGraw 69) Ayr United 0 6,985
Raith Rovers 1 (Gilpin 17) East Fife 1 (Aitken 23) 3,406
Interesting stuff. Can I ask your source for the attendance figures? The Starks Park crowd is one of the few East Fife ones I'm missing for that season and almost all are presumably an estimate eg 2,000, 3,000...

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Back in 1963

Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:24 pm

Hi there and welcome to the forum. The crowd figures are all from the SFL, as submitted by the home club. Let me know what else you are missing.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests