John Goldie, Kilmarnock

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John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Greger » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:28 pm

Was there by any chance two John Goldie at Kilmarnock in 1921-22? Kille had signed defender Jack Goldie from Bury for a big fee, later losing him to a match-fixing suspension, but I think there might have been an inside-forward of the same name there at the same time. He came from Hurlford, and later had trial at Preston and Accrington. I think he was the son of Hugh Goldie.
Is there any information on the lesser known inside-forward Goldie? Or have I got it all mixed up? :oops:

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Re: John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Scottish » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:00 pm

John Goldie was a Hurlford man and at the veteran stage of his career when he joined Killie. He arrived under the cloud of suspected match-fixing but it took a further three years before he was found guilty by the FA and banned for life. The "other" John Goldie was also from Hurlford but ten years younger. He played (very) briefly for Accrington Stanley. And yes, he was an inside-forward whereas the better known John Goldie was a centre-half.

Perhaps confusing matters slightly is the fact that Kilmarnock had two other Goldies in their ranks not long previously - George Goldie (1913-17) & Alex Goldie (1917-18), the latter of whom died in the great 'flu epidemic at the end of WW1. He was George's older brother but AFAIK not directly related to either of the Johns even though all four Goldies were born in Hurlford

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Re: John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Greger » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:22 pm

Many thanks for confirming the existence of two John Goldies. Unlike the older JG who had a long career in English football (Glossop, Bury), the younger had the briefest possible, just one game for Accrington Stanley while on trial in the spring of 1922. But he was the first Scot to play League football for a club which famously turned out eleven Scots in the 50s.

This it what I have on him:
I believe that not only did he hail from Hurlford, but he played for them circa 1920-21. He then joined Kilmarnock close-season 1921, moving to Preston on trial in March 1922, then to Accrington Stanley a few weeks later. Nothing else is known of his career until he turns up in the USA where he won the US Amateur Cup with Goodyear from Akron in 1931. He remained in the USA and died there. His family claims that he also played for Morton and Rangers, but I have found nothing to support that claim. In particular Rangers seems unlikely given that his father was a Celtic player.

Could I have his Kilmarnock, stats, please? Is anything else known of his career?

As for the Hurlford Goldies there were loads of them. In addition to the Kilmarnock players there were Hugh, young John's father (Celtic and Everton), brothers Archie and Bill (both Liverpool), and I have probably still forgotten some. They were related of course, but necessarily closely so. Don't know if Malcolm (Clydebank and USA) belong to that family.

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Re: John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Scottish » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:19 pm

There is no record of the "other" John Goldie playing for Kilmarnock. If he did then he certainly never appeared in the first team. John Litster's pre-war players disk has this Goldie as signing for Accrington from Ayr Juniors in 1932. However, there is yet another John Goldie from Hurlford around at this time, also an inside-right who played for Abercorn & Arthurlie pre-WW1 Obviously if the year of birth of 1899 is correct this can't be the same player but if that's wrong, it's far from inconceivable that this is the same guy. There's also a John Goldie who played for Solway Star in the Western League in 1922-23. Again, no hard evidence but if you're trying to trace him post-Accrington that might be a place to look.

It's not just Hurlford which had (has) a large number of Goldies. The public profiler of family surnames shows the most Goldies to be in Ayrshire & Arran in both 1881 & 1998 (the two years for which comparisons are available) so unlike many other names their movement seems to be static - rather like some of Jim Goldie's racehorses.

WRT to claim and counter-claim over the years this site has been running (lucky thirteen), you'd be amazed at the number of times I have to try and find a way of gently letting someone down who has approached me looking for more about their relation who "definitely" played for Celtic or Rangers (rarely any other team) and have at times been accused of being either negligible or useless when unable to provide details on the trophy and medal-laden pasts of their forebears.

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Re: John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Greger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:56 pm

Oops, my mistake!
I found a piece describing an inside-forward from Hurlford at Kilmarnock and thought it could be about John Goldie. It clearly wasn't.

As for Litster's mention of Ayr Juniors, I haven' read too much into that. It stems from the Complete Record of Accrington Stanley, and while it is a well-researched book, one of the best in the Breedon series, the author wasn't as thorough with his Scottish research as with the English. I just took that to mean a junior club from Ayrshire, and not even necessarily Junior in the Scottish sense. I don't believe there was an Ayr Juniors side then. Judging from Brian McColl's club list there were a number of possibilities named Ayr something, but not Ayr Juniors.
I think Litster's just repeated that. Litster's discs are useful for dates registered with the Football League, but his English info I just don't trust. And club's signed from is not what he has done best, anyway.

Thanks for the Solway Star trail, certainly a possibility. I think I have the exact birthdate somewhere, which would be a clue to the pre-war player's identity. But as we have already established, there were a lot of Goldies, in Hurlford or otherwise.

As for family claims, I had my share of those when I had my Accrington Stanley website up. Including a daughter who told me off for not including dad in the all-time greats team. I think he played six games in the Fourth Division! And it wasn't a deceased great granddad, either, it was a dad who was very much alive, and should have able to tell her the truth. Clearly did not.

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Re: John Goldie, Kilmarnock

Post by Scottish » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:09 am

Yes, there are some who should know better. Often it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. The dad who likes to impress his children and the children and/or grandchildren who don't want to accept their relative was anything less than stellar in their day. As in other fields of life tales grow the taller in their telling. Usually there's no harm done but I don't like it when I get told I should have more info about this or that "famous" relation. I have to bite my tongue to avoid my natural tendency to say "if he's that effin famous, why do you need to write to me? Why aren't all these medals and cups sitting on top of your mantelpieces and inside your display cabinets?"

I usually leave it for a day or two and end with a non-committal "Sorry I can't come across anything more. If I do I'll get back to you." Maybe this makes me a coward and it leaves the illusion intact. But it isn't my job to explain to them about Santa Claus & Xmas.

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