1928 Scottish Schoolboys

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mackem50
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1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by mackem50 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:42 pm

In 1928 Scottish Schoolboys played England Schoolboys. Does anyone know any details, score,ground ,teams etc?
Thanks

Snuff
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Snuff » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:23 pm

According to my copy of the Scottish School FA's book: Schoolboy International Who's Who 1911-1997 The 1928 match against England was played at Leicester, and England won 5-0.

The book only lists ten Scotland players from that game, in alphabetical order, but not in positional order; these boys are:

A Barnes (Cowdenbeath)
R Burns (Edinburgh)
J Colville (Dunfermline)
Bobby Hogg (Larkhall Academy)
R Johnstone (Greenfield Secondary, Hamilton)
M McDonald (Glasgow RC)
D Muir (Paisley & District)
J Mulheron (Glasgow RC)
J Phillips (Falkirk)
W Rennie (Paisley & District)

Bobby Hogg later went on to enjoy a long career with Celtic and win one full Scotland cap, against Czechoslovakia in 1937.
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Scottish » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:48 pm

I'll wager that M. McDonald is Malky, later of Celtic and manager of Kilmarnock, Brentford and Killie again.

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Snuff » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:34 pm

Scottish wrote:
I'll wager that M. McDonald is Malky, later of Celtic and manager of Kilmarnock, Brentford and Killie again.


That thought did cross my mind David. However, schoolboy caps who went on to have significant senior careers, such as Jack Harkness, George Young, Billy Steele and Kenny Dalglish received a wee footnote, detailing their senior careers. No such information was appended to M McDonald in 1928.

This does not necessarily mean the player in question wasn't Malky, however, the surname spelling of Malky's name is usually MacDonald.

I checked out the normally reliable Celtic Wiki, but, it does not mention schoolboy honours for MacDonald. Again, however, this does not necessarily mean it wasn't Malky who played in 1928, certainly, given he was born in October, 1913 - it could well be him.
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Gordon Baird » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:45 pm

It was played on 21 April.

The Scotland team, and missing player, was:
Johnstone; Hogg, Rennie; Hackett (Midlothian), McDonald, Muir; Colville, Burns, Mulheron, Barnes, Phillips.

After losing 5-0, only Hogg, Rennie, Muir & Colville were selected for the team to play Wales on 5 May.

Jim Colville (Queen Anne) never played senior football while Arthur Barnes made one appearance for Raith Rovers in 1933/34 (from Hearts of Beath) before joining Dunfermline from Lochgelly Albert in 1938/39.

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Scottish » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:01 pm

Snuff wrote:

That thought did cross my mind David. However, schoolboy caps who went on to have significant senior careers, such as Jack Harkness, George Young, Billy Steele and Kenny Dalglish received a wee footnote, detailing their senior careers. No such information was appended to M McDonald in 1928.

This does not necessarily mean the player in question wasn't Malky, however, the surname spelling of Malky's name is usually MacDonald.

I checked out the normally reliable Celtic Wiki, but, it does not mention schoolboy honours for MacDonald. Again, however, this does not necessarily mean it wasn't Malky who played in 1928, certainly, given he was born in October, 1913 - it could well be him.
Just had a look at Richard Cairns & Gordon Allison's 'Killie Til' I Die' and it says he was capped at U-14 in 1928. Was this game U-15, bearing in mind the school-leaving age was 14 in those days?

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Snuff » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:49 pm

David.

Scotland Schoolboy internationals were at Under-14 level in 1928. Therefore, the M MacDonald in the team was definitely Malky.

Under-15 internationals were not introduced until after World War II. The last full round of Home Internationals at Under-14 were played in 1948.

The 1949 games were at Under-15 level for England and Wales, but Under-14 for Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland game continued to be at Under-14 level until 1956, switching to Under-15 from 1957
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by mackem50 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:29 pm

Hi Snuff,its interesting David raises the question of age. I'm researching the guy who was captain of England that day,there is very little info on his early life. But what I have seen is that he " stayed on at school" to play for, and captain England schoolboys v Scotland in 1928.He was born in Oct 1913 the same month and year as M Mc Donald,as they were over 14 I'm puzzled how this was an under 14 international?

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:45 pm

Probably because he was under 14 at the start of the 1927-28 season, his 14th birthday (and Malky MacDonald's) not being until October 1927. As 'Snuff' has pointed out, ALL schoolboy internationals were U-14 prior to WW2. The school-leaving age wasn't raised to 15 until (I think) 1947 or thereabouts.

mackem50
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by mackem50 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:58 pm

Hi David,thanks for that. I didn't know how it worked

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by bluedragon » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:41 am

Snuff wrote:According to my copy of the Scottish School FA's book: Schoolboy International Who's Who 1911-1997 .
Snuff - could I ask a favour please? I am doing some research into David Calder who played three Scotland Schoolboys matches in 1934. It would be great to get the line-ups for those three games. Thanks

Gordon Baird
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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by Gordon Baird » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:32 pm

If Snuff's book only lists the players in alphabetical order, I can give you the correct formation.

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by ScottishFA » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:49 pm

If you use the free access to BNA via Findmypast this weekend you can get all the match reports.

Where the search field says 'first name' and 'last name' just put in Calder Cowdenbeath and then narrow it down to 1934. You'll get plenty of relevant results.

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by bluedragon » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:33 pm

ScottishFA wrote:If you use the free access to BNA via Findmypast this weekend you can get all the match reports.

Where the search field says 'first name' and 'last name' just put in Calder Cowdenbeath and then narrow it down to 1934. You'll get plenty of relevant results.
Many thanks Andy. I have now got all the match reports.

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Re: 1928 Scottish Schoolboys

Post by bluedragon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:48 am

mackem50 wrote:Hi Snuff,its interesting David raises the question of age. I'm researching the guy who was captain of England that day,there is very little info on his early life. But what I have seen is that he " stayed on at school" to play for, and captain England schoolboys v Scotland in 1928.He was born in Oct 1913 the same month and year as M Mc Donald,as they were over 14 I'm puzzled how this was an under 14 international?
I am researching the same player (Reggie Trim). He was involved in the hazardous role of towing gliders as part of the Normandy landings in June 1944. One source says that he was awarded the DFC but I cannot find any trace. Another source says that he was mentioned in despatches on two occasions (1942 & 1944). I have found the 1944 MID. However, I am wondering how it could be for his flying in the early hours of 6 June 1944 as part of an airborne assault on a gun battery as the MID was published in the London Gazette just two days later on 8 June 1944.

I have seen various postings on RAF forums from you (I think!) and would be very happy to exchange information.

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