Scottish Cup

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Aten
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Scottish Cup

Post by Aten » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:31 pm

With the Scottish Cup upon us once more, I thought it might be of passing interest to know how long it took clubs to win their first trophy. The baseline being 1873 (when the competition began) or the year the club was formed, whichever date is later.

Queen’s Park – 1st year.
Vale of Leven – 4th year.
Celtic – 5th year.
Dumbarton – 10th year.
Hibernian and Renton – 12th year.
Third Lanark – 16th year.
Dundee and St.Bernard’s 17th year.
Heart of Midlothian – 18th year.
Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Rangers (1872) – 21st year.
East Fife – 35th year.
Falkirk – 36th year.
Aberdeen – 44th year.
Airdrieonians (1878) – 46th year.
Kilmarnock – 47th year.
Morton and Partick Thistle – 48th year.
St.Mirren – 49th year.
Clyde – 62nd year.
Motherwell – 66th year.
Dundee United – 85th year.
Dunfermline Athletic – 87th year.
St.Johnstone – 130th year.

Incidentally, even after the formation of the League the Scottish Cup was still regarded as the “blue riband” trophy. Does anyone know when it ceased to hold that status?

the hibLOG
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Re: Scottish Cup

Post by the hibLOG » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:39 am

Aten wrote:Incidentally, even after the formation of the League the Scottish Cup was still regarded as the “blue riband” trophy. Does anyone know when it ceased to hold that status?
I think that is impossible to pin down with any precision - it was a gradual evolution rather than a specific moment. However it would be accurate to say that the advent of European competition was the beginning of that process, in particular the establishment of the European Champions' Cup as the pre-eminent competition for league champions as opposed to the Cup Winners' Cup which was only officially adopted by UEFA in 1962 and was always the second string tournament.

It's difficult to say when European qualification via the league became an important end in itself - attitudes to its desirability would have differed among clubs for many years, some continuing to regard it as a bonus rather than an imperative. Perhaps early-1970s, with the Fairs Cup morphing into the UEFA Cup to firmly establish league position as a gateway to two European competitions with the Cup offering access to the least prestigious of the three competitions. Prestige was clearly attached to the Champions Cup by that time and the UEFA Cup quickly usurped the Cup Winners Cup. Even aside from the financial benefits the perceived prestige issue would at that point have ensured that the domestic cup competitions were no longer the number one goal.
Fraser

Aten
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Re: Scottish Cup

Post by Aten » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:03 pm

Thanks “hibLOG”. Confirms my thoughts too. I suppose it was probably to some extent newspaper driven insomuch as when they started promoting the League as a higher status competition than the Cup, that is where the answer lies.

Logically the League is the premier competition by its very nature yet Scottish Cup ties still take precedence over League fixtures. There was a time when even Glasgow Cup ties took precedence over League fixtures. I suspect that the change in attitude happened after the First World War.

the hibLOG
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Re: Scottish Cup

Post by the hibLOG » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:02 pm

Aten wrote:Logically the League is the premier competition by its very nature yet Scottish Cup ties still take precedence over League fixtures. There was a time when even Glasgow Cup ties took precedence over League fixtures. I suspect that the change in attitude happened after the First World War.
I don't think there was much change that early. I think it was Gordon Smith or perhaps Eddie Turnbull - one of Hibs' Famous Five anyway - who said that despite winning the league three times in five years in the 1940s and 50s they always felt they had never achieved their ultimate potential as a team because they never won the cup, as it was still the highest regarded trophy in those days.
Fraser

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