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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:26 pm
by Scottish
honestman wrote:Troon Rangers appeared in the early 1900's.
Given the nature of some of the current Troon support and the fact that the local Masonic club is a popular pre and post-match drinks venue there's a case for saying they're still going strong in the early 2000's as well. :D

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:20 pm
by Scottish
BMCCOLL wrote:There is a reference to the Mountaineers being beaten by Auchinleck Talbot in the 1912 Mauchline District Cup. Is it possible they turned junior after appearing in the Scottish cup in 1882-83?

Definitely possible but to clear up the name, Rankinston Mountaineers is definitely the name of the club which took part in the inaugural Ayrshire Cup of 1877-78, losing to Lanemark in a first round replay

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:27 pm
by honestman
More on the Troon Academicals/Athletic - - My article from Junior programme was certainly before 2002. My records for Junior cup winners and runners-up in Ayrshire show Troon Academicals winning cups in the 1890's(Irvine and District Cup 1892, 1895 and 1897) and Troon Athletic in the 1920's and 1930's(Ayrshire Junior Cup in 1922 and Ayrshire Consolation Cup(1924 and 1936)
My original mistake may have caused some minor confusion. :oops:

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:35 pm
by Scottish
But was it before 1989? That's when Drew Cochrane wrote "The first I&D Cup had been won by Troon Athletic, formerly the Academicals." Though on the list of I&D winners he just calls them Troon.

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:15 am
by honestman
My article was cetainly after 1989, but my records for Ayrshire Junior football(which are fairly extensive) have numerous results during the 1890's which refer to Troon Academicals.
Is it possible that Mr. Cochrane's information is wrong?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:42 am
by Scottish
honestman wrote:.Is it possible that Mr. Cochrane's information is wrong?
Yes, I suppose it is. But it's always good to resolve these matters if possible. It's certainly not my intention to cast any doubt on your records, just that when there are conflicting accounts it's best IMHO to point this out.

Troon have finally established a website but it only goes back as far as the establishment of Troon Juniors after WW2. Though they do have final league tables for the late 1940s which is something of a rarity.

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:03 pm
Jackie Heaney's list also has Troon Accies becoming Troon Athletic during the 1890s, but this may also be another case of mis-information being passed on. As honestman has done extensive research of this period, I think it wise to use his records and remove the reference to Accies renaming themselves. Does anyone disagree with this?

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:57 pm
I've just completed a major update of both lists, and they are available to see at my site

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:13 pm
Re your all time list of clubs, I think Jordanhill`s last game was their 4-0 defeat by Rangers in the Scottish Cup 1st Round @ Anniesland Park on 9th September 1882. Glasgow Academicals Football Club moved in as Jordanhill faded out & was playing there that season. In one football guise or other, I think Anniesland is the longest continuously used football ground in Scotland, Jordanhill FC starting there in 1875.

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
by Scottish
And just to add to your woes in compiling this Sisyphean project. You have the Combined Reserve League ending in 1972. Fixtures for 1975-76 show the CRL still in existence and comprised of ten of the new 1st division clubs plus Queen's Park.

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:32 pm
The CRL existed for at least two seasons after 1972 (1973-74 and 1975-76, I think). I used that year as the cutoff as there were no non-League sides involved in the later competitions which I think was in fact a separate tournament. An old SFH ran a history of it a few years back, so I'll check that.

The project does have its drawbacks as just when you think you can close it off, more data is received (amended formation dates etc). And I've also just received a copy of John Aitken's West of Scotland Juniors book, with more teams and dates.

Then again the whole purpose was to compile the most comprehensive listings available, so bring 'em on! :D

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:23 pm
by Scottish
The SFA hold senior lists for every season from 1893-94 onwards so if you get the chance you could compare with their records. I've given them the url for your site.

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:28 pm
by Scottish
Pedantic note on the election of Albion Rovers over Cowdenbeath in 1919. It wasn't, strictly speaking, 11-10 for Rovers. It was actually 10 votes each with Rovers being elected on the casting vote of the chairman, Thomas Hart of St Mirren, according to The Scotsman of April 4th 1919.

Presumably in view of only twenty votes being cast, St Mirren didn't vote in the initial ballot on grounds of the neutrality of the chair.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:06 pm
I've revamped the senior and junior lists to make it easier to navigate. As ever I would be happy to receive any amendments, additional info etc.

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:53 pm
Re your entry 29/5/2006, Milton of Campsie & Lennoxtown are in the Kelvin valley and the river which flows through it at this point is the Glazart Water. I don`t know of ANY Avon in the vicinity (ben, hill, burn, stream, rivulet) so why there would be a club called "Avondale" in Campsie I don`t know. Mind you, there isn`t a "Ben Burb" anywhere near where THAT club plays.