Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:11 pm

As part of the work on compiling Junior Scotland records Sureitza and I are looking at matches played by the SJFA XI against Scottish League clubs. So far we have identified 12 matches. Can anyone help with:

1) the missing SJFA information or indeed any information on the matches listed below

2) details of other matches played against League opposition.

SJFA XI score first

16 Dec 1959 Rangers XI 2-2
9 Oct 1971 Stenhousemuir 4-1 Missing - Goal scorers & players
7 Apr 1975 Rangers XI
5 Oct 1981 Stirling Albion 1-1 Missing - Goal scorers & players
8 Oct 1989 Cowdenbeath Missing - Score, goal scorers & players
22 Aug 1993 Rangers XI Missing - Score & goal scorers
15 Feb 1995 Clydebank XI 3-1 Missing - Starting XI and subs.
28 Feb 1996 Hamilton Academical XI 3-0
4 Mar 1996 St Mirren XI 1-2 Missing - Goal scorers & players
21 Oct 1996 Partick Thistle XI 2-4 Missing - Goal scorers & players
24 Mar 1997 Clydebank XI 6-3 Missing - One goal scorer, 8 players & subs.
4 Feb 1998 Dundee XI 4-0 Missing - 7 players & subs.
22 Mar 1999 Celtic XI 4-2 Missing - Goal scorers & players
29 Mar 1999 Partick Thistle XI 2-1 Missing - Goal scorers & players
Aug/Sep 2007 Alloa Athletic 2-1 Missing - Goal scorers & players
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby RobertB » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:52 pm

I am unable to help with any of this at the moment but might have some details tucked away that I will look out tomorrow. I actually just wanted to say that you two along with so many on here are just a joy in what you do and share in so many ways and its so greatly appreciated by myself and I am sure many others, so thanks to you all and good luck with your continued research, and ours I guess, thanks.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby gogsy1968 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Date either 20th or 27th March 2007

Stenhousemuir 2-0 SJFA X1 (game played in preparation for Quadrangular tournament)
Squad taken from an old Kelty Hearts programme was Allan Fleming (Kelty Hearts), Joe Carruth (Pollok), Robert Downs (Pollok), John Elliot (Bonnyrigg Rose), David gillies (Auchinleck Talbot), Sean Grady (Bonnyrigg Rose), Paul Hilland (Arthurlie), Michael Hughes( Cumnock) Andy McClay (Pollok), Joe Mbu (Whitburn), Craig Stark (Lanark), Steven Swift (Irvine Meadow), Derek Wingate(Irvine Meadow) and Joe Andrew (Arthurlie). Only thing I can remember about the actual game was that Fleming was in goals.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby prorege » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:34 pm

Not all against SFL clubs, but the following notes re Representative games are taken from the SJFA Annual reports:

NB I have ignored reference to the well-documented games against Wales, Ireland, England.

From the minutes of SJFA AGMs

1961/2
“We again played a match against the Scottish 2nd XI FA but on this occasion defeated by 5 goals to 1 was our portion. An innovation this season was a match between an XI of Amateur players registered with the SJFA and the Scottish Amateur FA. We won by 2 goals to 1 and produced two players for the Scottish Amateur international XU=I. We also played a match with the Western League at Stevenston on October 7th, drawn 2-2”.

1962/3
Earlier in the season we played matches against the FifeJFA and the Forfarshire JFA for the benefit of the funds of these Associations.

1963/4
We played matches against three of our County Associations, the Glasgow JFA, Renfrewshire JFA and Perthshire JFA. We also played a team of Amateur players affiliated to the SJFA against an SFA Amateur XI at Easter Road to assist with the selection of the Scotland Amateur international team.

1964/5
We played only one representative match this season, against the East of Scotland JFA, at Linlithgow. We again fielded a team of Amateur players affiliated to the SJFA against a Scottish Amateur FA select to assist with the selection of the Scottish Amateur team. This match was played at Neilston and our team won 5-1.

1965/6
Our County matches were against the Morayshire JFA at Elgin and the Ayrshire JFA at Ayr. We won at Elgin but lost at Ayr.

1966/7
Our only County game was against the Dunbartonshire JFA at Clydebank.

1967/8
“Representative matches were played (by the SJFA international side) against the Fife and Aberdeenshire County Associations. Due to the decision at the Special General Meeting (formation of 6 Regions) in April 1968 such matches will be discontinued and matches at Senior level sought”.

1968/9
One other Representative match was played, against Arsenal at Petershill Park, on 6th March 1969. (Result 5-3 Arsenal – given in minutes, conflicts with other sources)

1969/70
We also sent a team to Lanark on June 17th (1970) to play the local United FC as part of their golden jubilee celebrations.

1970/1
We played the Scottish Secondary Juvenile FA at Clydebank on May 1st to mark the latter’s 50th Anniversary.

1974/5
In preparation for the International games we played Rangers Reserves at Ibrox, defeating them 2-0. We also met Vale of Clyde in a match to commemorate their Centenary.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby gogsy1968 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:02 pm

The 1967/8 match against Fife County select was played at Newburgh on 16th September, result was Fife Select 2-1 SJFA Select. I don't have team details but I know the Dundee Courier (Fife Edition) for the Friday or Saturday gave squad details for the Scotland select and the Monday edition mentions some of the squad changes. Pretty sure Kenny Dalglish was in the initial squad.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby prorege » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:37 pm

Further checking shows 61/2 game with 2nd XI FA was at Firhill on March 5th.

A few more games:

21/4/1923 Alloa Athletic v Scottish Junior FA 1-0
22/3/1999 Scottish Junior FA v Celtic XI 2-4 at Maryhill
23/9/1992 Scottish Junior FA v Hearts 3-4
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:17 pm

Many thanks for the terrific responses. I will work through them all in the next few days and add the new details to our record. I am sure more questions will follow.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:17 am

Thanks again for the contributions that either collaborate details we have or provide new information.

Here are a few matters arising:

1961/62

Scottish League Second Eleven XI. I have the score as a 1:4 defeat for the Junior select. The minutes say it was 1:5.

1968/69

I have the Arsenal result as 2:5 to Arsenal. Another result that conflicts with the minutes.

1974/75

I have the match to celebrate the Centenary of Vale of Clyde FC being played against a Central League XI.

21 April 1923 v Alloa Athletic

This match was played on the same day as Junior Scotland were playing the Birmingham FA (“England”) in Birmingham. The Sunday Post describes the team playing Alloa as a “Scottish Junior Select”.

1967/8 match against Fife County select

I have now found the selected starting eleven that includes Kenny Dalglish. I will now have to find the Monday edition of the Dundee Courier (Fife Edition) for details of any changes to the original selection. The Glasgow Evening Times does not appear to carry a report.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby Rob R » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:50 pm

the 1968/69 game against Arsenal , I remember sometime in the last year reading the report in the Herald. The match was at Petershill and the Arsenal youth team included Charlie George and Eddie Kelly and I think one or two others of their double side of 2 years later. If I remember correctly the game was in the 2nd half of the season for those who wish to find it in the Herald.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:34 pm

Rob R wrote:the 1968/69 game against Arsenal , I remember sometime in the last year reading the report in the Herald. The match was at Petershill and the Arsenal youth team included Charlie George and Eddie Kelly and I think one or two others of their double side of 2 years later. If I remember correctly the game was in the 2nd half of the season for those who wish to find it in the Herald.



You are right that it was a strong young Arsenal team that played in the game on 1 March 1969. From the eleven players plus one substitute five went on to play in the 1970/71 Arsenal double-winning season (Pat Rice, Sammy Nelson, Eddie Kelly, Charlie George & Ray Kennedy). Of the 10 players I can identify four were Scots (John Woodward ex Possilpark YMCA, John Carmichael ex Possilpark YMCA, Eddie Kelly ex Possilpark YMCA & Gordon Cumming ex Glasgow United). Three others also played first team league football for the Gunners (Malcolm Webster, John Woodward & Roger Davidson).

Although the score was 5:2 (ht 2:1) in Arsenal’s favour three of the Londoner’s goals came in the last 15 minutes.

Scorers:
Scotland – Des Quigley (Shotts Bon Accord) 8m; Eric Gillespie (Cambuslang Rangers) 67m;
Arsenal - Kelly 11m; Kennedy 45m; Cumming 75m; George 87m & 89m.

The Arsenal team was:
Malcolm Webster
Pat Rice
Sammy Nelson
John Woodward
John Carmichael
Eddie Kelly
Gordon Cumming
Roger Davidson
Charlie George
Johnstone
Ray Kennedy
Sub: Reilly

It appears Arsenal’s motive was recruitment as they asked the SJFA to select players who were not provisionally signed to Scottish League clubs. On the other hand, Arsenal agreed not to field any players over 22 years of age. The team was manager George Male (Arsenal & England).
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby gogsy1968 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:52 am

1962/3 Fife JFA Select 0-2 SJFA Select at Thornton 25th August
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:35 am

gogsy1968 wrote:1962/3 Fife JFA Select 0-2 SJFA Select at Thornton 25th August

Thanks for that. Prior to your post I only had that there was a game against Fife JFA Select in 1962. The date has led me to the full line-up and half time score and goal scorers.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby RobertB » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:09 pm

Meant to say, John Holyrood who runs the programme stall at Auchinleck got a batch of programmes this week that include lots of junior international ones and I 'think' some select ones, he might be able to fill in any blanks from your research if you haven't already got access to the issues he has? He runs a non league programme page on Facebook which is here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1460380410929222/

and also is active on Pie and Bovril, hes also a very helpful guy.
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby Boabthe warrior » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:00 pm

21 Apr 1923 Scottish Juniors v Alloa Athetic Juniors side was :- Ditty (Twechar Rangers) Hodge (Twechar Rangers) Aitken (Dumbarton Harp) Carey (Kirkintilloch Harp) Hendry (East Kilbride Thistle) Chisholm (Cartvale) McGeachan (Kilsyth Rangers) McLaren (Cadden United) Love (Cadden United) Geakie (Cartvale) and Scullion (Dumbarton Harp). Canny remember which paper I got the details from but I still require the Wasps team
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Re: Junior Scotland v Scottish League clubs

Postby bluedragon » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:01 pm

Thanks to you both. I have contacted John Holroyd and added in the line up from the 1923 Alloa match.
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