Hibs appearances 1958-1959 & 1959-60

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bobby s
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Hibs appearances 1958-1959 & 1959-60

Post by bobby s » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:12 pm

I wonder if any of you might be able to shed any light on this.

Both Litster & Emms detail two players to have played a solitary game for Hibs in the late 50's: just a surname in each case...Campbell & Prentice. I cannot find any other details on either player like first name, or any other clubs so I thought I'd check against other sources.

First a book by Jim Jeffrey on every player to play for Hibs in the league since the second world war: no mention of either player. Then onto season reviews from the official programme 3 years ago, again no mention of either player.

In 1958-1959 "Campbell" supposedly played one game. Comparing the official programme to Litster highlights that Litster is 2 games short somewhere along the line. Eddie Turnbull played 24 according to the club programme (23 in Litster). Johnny McLeod played 11 according to the club programme (10 in Litster).

Then it gets complicated, instead of "Campbell" the official programme lists Malcolm Bogie as playing 2 games. That makes the programme 1 appearance over, with Litster 2 under.

Could Campbell be Bogie? Any suggestions?


Edit : OOPS

I missed another couple of differences: Litster says Ormond 26, programme says 25. Litster says J Thomson 0, programme says 4 making programme 4 over.


In 1959-1960 "Prentice" supposedly played one game. Comparing the notes in the official programme to Litster & Emms the discrepancy is thus: according to the official programme Jock Grant played 23 league games. According to Litster he played 22, and Prentice played 1 game. Might Prentice by Grant? A poorly written transcript being typed up etc etc?

I've not worked my way back yet to getting team line ups game by game for this period, but I wondered if anyone had the relevant info.

Cheers!
Last edited by bobby s on Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steve Emms
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Post by Steve Emms » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:34 am

Unfortunately I can't shed any light on this. My co-author Richard Beal collated post-war appearances from contemporary newspaper reports. We have no connection with John Litster's work so it's unlikely that we both made identical mistakes.

Campbell & Prentice are also listed on the Hibs page at www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com as having made one appearance each; I'm not sure what source has been used here.

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Post by Scottish » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:13 am

Possibly the mention of Campbell comes from the Empire News & Sunday Chronicle Annual. The 1959-60 edition has a Campbell playing one league game for Hibs in 1958-59. It has 26 for Ormond, 23 Turnbull, 10 McLeod, nothing for Thomson. However the total number of appearances for the season is 372 - two less than there should be (34 games X 11 players = 374). However it has no appearances by Bogie which would account for the two missing.

For 1960-61 this publication has one appearance for Prentice, 22 for Grant and a correct total of 374.

Didn't John Litster use the Weekly News for his figures where club histories weren't available?

My general rule is where discrepancies arise to go for the source closest to the club and the year. In this instance that's the programme. Unfortunately I know from experience that club programmes of that era didn't exercise the same care in compling ststas as they generally do today.

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Post by bobby s » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:16 am

Thanks for that Steve, that helps alot :) I've emailed the Hibs club historian to see if he can shed any light on it. I've now got an idea of what seasons I'll have to start with when I go into the National library next year.

I've a hunch, possibly wrong, that Campbell & Prentice were listed wrongly in newspapers/soccer weekly and the error keeps repeating. I can imagine the serious stattos are having a good giggle to themselves at that notion :oops:

Grant & Prentice seems a bit similar to be a coincidence..although Prentice could also be from apprentice too I suppose.

"Campbell" has me stumped though.
Campbell & Prentice are also listed on the Hibs page at www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com as having made one appearance each; I'm not sure what source has been used here.
Funny! that's how this has come about, I'd emailed Neil information about some of the missing info on his Hibs page and those two players had me stumped even on a first name. Which led me to delve a bit deeper. I'll ask him what his sources were but I'd be surprised if it doesn't lead me back to the above post by David with the same error, possibly through your work Steve.
Last edited by bobby s on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bobby s
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Post by bobby s » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:21 am

David, thanks that helps enormously I'll amend my stats with the proviso that I check for it when I go over the seasons game by game.
Didn't John Litster use the Weekly News for his figures where club histories weren't available?
I think that's right, yes.
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bobby s
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Post by bobby s » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:23 pm

Exchanged an email with Neil Brown today, and his Hibs stats from 46-60 were taken from Litsters disk.

Thanks for the help guys.
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Post by ScottishFA » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:00 pm

Just to add to this, I have had a look at the Hibs handbook for 1959-60 and the handbook edition of the programme early in 1960-61, which usefully list not only all the appearances of the preceding season but also the full playing staff.

No mention of anyone called Campbell or Prentice in either season, at any level within the club. So this would seem to indicate a misprint in newspaper reports.

Unfortunately the handbooks give totals only, not a complete game by game breakdown.

In 1958-59, the players with low numbers of appearances (league matches) were: Wren, Scott 3 each; Young, Hughes, Higgins, Bogie 2 each; Boyle, Muir 1 each.

And in 1959-60, the numbers were: Muir, Aitken 3 each; Buchanan 2; Davin, Nicol 1 each.

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Post by bobby s » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:03 pm

That's an absolutely magic help, thanks ScottishFA for taking the time to look into it and reply. :D
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