It has to be asked

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lbb
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It has to be asked

Post by lbb » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:11 am

When was the last time Celtic were eliminated from both domestic cup competitions at home in the same season?

I believe it's the first since 1985-86 that they've failed to reach the semi-finals of either competition. Anyone know if this is correct?

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Post by Scottish » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:07 am

Given that the League Cup was played either on a sectional basis or over two legs before 1984-85 this is the FIRST time they have been eliminated from both at home in the same season. A quick look through their results shows they have lost just six home Scottish Cup ties post-war and three of those have been against Aberdeen. Clyde, Dunfermline & Inverness CT being the others.

Yes, 1985-86 was the last season they failed to reach a domestic semi-final, when Hibs knocked them out of both cups at the quarter-final stage. I am sure plenty of Celtic fans will tell you that the last time this happened to Rangers was in 2006-07. And the time before that was 2005-06.

Rangers have yet to be eliminated from both tournaments at home in the same season. The have lost nine post-war Scottish Cup ties at home with Dundee (three times) and Hibs (twice) leading the way, followed by Celtic, Motherwell, Aberdeen & Hamilton

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Post by StAndrewsHMFC » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:39 pm

Ok, given Celtic rarely lose at home in the cup whats the longest unbeaten home streak in the cup? I know we managed 20 years from 1982-2002 (Forfar and Inverness beating us at either end!) but who has the record?

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Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:31 pm

This could be a 'how long is a piece of string' type query, given the vagaries of the draw. Albion Rovers, for example, can claim 24 years between home defeats from 1904-1928. Of course that includes the First World War when the competition wasn't played and ignores the fact that Rovers failed to qualify on several occasions as well.

They played twelve home ties between those defeats (which contrasts with the 35 Hearts played between defeats) but only three of those were against top flight opponents.

And if you don't count the preliminary rounds in 1891-95 as part of the Scottish Cup proper (and a lot of publications don't) then Alloa Athletic can claim 32 years from 1888-1920 using the same methodology.

To take a ridiculous example, Clachnacuddin went 26 years (1922-1948) without a home defeat but played just one home match during that time.

I'm sure there will be many other examples if you dig deep enough

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Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:54 pm

I erred earlier when saying Celtic had lost six post-war ties at home. They also lost the 1998 semi-final to Rangers at Parkhead.

Having scraped a draw last night Rangers will now go at least 22 years without a home Scottish Cup defeat, their last being Hamilton in 1987. Thy have played 27 ties during this time, less than Hearts in their twenty-year run.

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Post by lbb » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:12 pm

Parkhead was surely a neutral venue for the 1998 Scottish Cup semi-final and therefore doesn't count as a 'home' defeat for Celtic.

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Post by Scottish » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:30 pm

Officially neutral yes. Certainly ticket allocation was made on that basis but nevertheless they lost the match on their home ground.

In 1994-95 Celtic played four Scottish Cup ties at Hampden (which they used for home games that season), three of which were 'home' games and one (the final) 'neutral.'

Interestingly, there was never any question of the final being moved to Ibrox even though Hampden was undoubtedly Celtic's home ground that season.

Other than Finals, semis, Queen's Park matches and neutral second or more replays, Hampden has also been used as a home ground for Scottish Cup ties by Third Lanark twice.

Celtic have played three home League Cup ties at Hampden and Third Lanark nine.

In the league Celtic have played 22 home games at Hampden and Third Lanark 46. Partick Thistle, Rangers and St Mirren have all played on home match there.

I'd put Celtic's defeat by Hibs in the 1902 final down as a home loss as the venue was decided upon in the clear knowledge Celtic were still in the competition.

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Post by lbb » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:58 pm

The 1994-95 tournament was a strange one. Celtic played Hibs at Ibrox in the semi-finals because Hampden was deemed to be their 'home' venue for the competition that season. Hampden then took back its neutrality for the final. I never understood that one either.

When Celtic lost to Caley Thistle in the 2000 Scottish Cup, it was generally recorded as their home Cup defeat since Aberdeen in 1979. The 1998 semi-final wasn't considered though I take your point.

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Post by Skyline Drifter » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:10 pm

scottish wrote:Having scraped a draw last night Rangers will now go at least 22 years without a home Scottish Cup defeat, their last being Hamilton in 1987. Thy have played 27 ties during this time, less than Hearts in their twenty-year run.
Eh? :?

Did I imagine them losing 3-0 at home to Hibernian on Feb 4th 2006 then?

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Post by Scottish » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:14 pm

Skyline Drifter wrote:Did I imagine them losing 3-0 at home to Hibernian on Feb 4th 2006 then?
Oops :oops:

No, but I bet a lot of their fans wish you did

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