Early Scottish Cup

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:05 am

nightfire wrote:Please check the following for Celtic scorers:

13/10/1888 - Celtic 4 v Albion Rovers 1
08/12/1888 - Celtic 9 v Clyde 2
12/01/1889 - Dumbarton 1 v Celtic 4
18/10/1890 - Wishaw Thistle 2 v Celtic 6
13/12/1890 - Royal Albert 0 v Celtic 2
16/12/1893 - Celtic 7 v Albion Rovers 0

For these games, I have seen some scorers listed but the books I have available don't agree.

Thanks.
From Byrne
13/10/88 Groves is the only scorer listed
08/12/88 Maley 3, McLaren, McCallum 2, Groves 2, Coleman
12/01/89 Groves 3, Dunbar
18/10/90 Dowds, Madden 2, Campbell, Leslie OG (only five goals listed)
13/12/90 Crossan is the only scorer listed
16/12/93 Cassidy 4, Blessington, Madden 2

From Herald match reports in order of goals scored. NK where no scorer mentioned.
13/10/88 All NK
08/12/88 Coleman, McLaren, Maley, McLaren, NK, Maley, Groves, NK, NK
12/01/89 NK, NK, Groves, Dunbar
18/10/90 Dowds, Madden, Campbell, Madden, OG, NK
13/12/90 NK, NK
16/12/93 All NK

Certainly a difference in the second match on the list where Byrne gives McLaren one goal and the match report has him scoring at least twice.

Alan McCabe
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Post by Alan McCabe » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:26 am

For the Dumbarton match I've seen Groves (3) & Dunbar (1) as well as Groves (2) & Dunbar (2).
I have Campbell scoring twice at Wishaw Thistle to make up the half-dozen.
Campbell is also credited in my notes as having scored the second against Royal Albert.

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:41 am

bobby s wrote:
From Lugton:

There were other problems in the forward line, for an unknown reason a completely new left-winger John O' Neill from Linlithgow was selected in place of Jimmy Murdoch. Even up to just a few hours before the kick off Hibernian had not finalised their forward line but, it was known that they were sticking to their tried and tested defence.

According to Litster

1895/96 O'Neill, John Linlithgow Athletic 14 2 1896 to Hibs 28/2/96
1896/97 O'Neill, John Airdrieonians 23 7 1896 to east Stirling 20/4/97

I don't know if smokiesnwine can add anything, but that may have been the only appearance the JON made in his 5 month hibs career. Must have been awfy good in training.
The Scotsman has O'Neill scoring the Hibs goal

The Guardian has it as Neil

Image

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Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

BMCCOLL
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Post by BMCCOLL » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:01 pm

scottish wrote:
Sat31March1928 wrote:I've still got a couple of crowds missing

Irish League 0-1 28/2/1903
League of Ireland 4-2 21/9/1955

In the following 2 games I have these subs. Does anyone know if they came on and who for?

Irish League 2-3 29/4/1893
Andy Brown St Mirren

League of Ireland 1-0 2/9/1970
Tommy McLean Kilmarnock

ta
10,000 & 25,500 respectively

Brown for Alexander Wylie.

McLean? I'm not 100% (and neither is the WRB but it doesn't credit him with an appearance in this game) but I don't think he came on.
I have T McLean replacing A Duncan of Hibs

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Post by nightfire » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:58 pm

scottish wrote:
nightfire wrote:Please check the following for Celtic scorers:

13/10/1888 - Celtic 4 v Albion Rovers 1
08/12/1888 - Celtic 9 v Clyde 2
12/01/1889 - Dumbarton 1 v Celtic 4
18/10/1890 - Wishaw Thistle 2 v Celtic 6
13/12/1890 - Royal Albert 0 v Celtic 2
16/12/1893 - Celtic 7 v Albion Rovers 0

For these games, I have seen some scorers listed but the books I have available don't agree.

Thanks.
From Byrne
13/10/88 Groves is the only scorer listed
08/12/88 Maley 3, McLaren, McCallum 2, Groves 2, Coleman
12/01/89 Groves 3, Dunbar
18/10/90 Dowds, Madden 2, Campbell, Leslie OG (only five goals listed)
13/12/90 Crossan is the only scorer listed
16/12/93 Cassidy 4, Blessington, Madden 2

From Herald match reports in order of goals scored. NK where no scorer mentioned.
13/10/88 All NK
08/12/88 Coleman, McLaren, Maley, McLaren, NK, Maley, Groves, NK, NK
12/01/89 NK, NK, Groves, Dunbar
18/10/90 Dowds, Madden, Campbell, Madden, OG, NK
13/12/90 NK, NK
16/12/93 All NK

Certainly a difference in the second match on the list where Byrne gives McLaren one goal and the match report has him scoring at least twice.
Thanks.

I will compare this with what I have

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Post by nightfire » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:00 pm

Does the book include Referees for games?

If so, can someone check for the ref in the Scottish Cup tie between Falkirk & Celtic on 21st February 1953

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Post by Scottish » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:02 am

Sorry, no referee information in this book. 'Scottish Cup Finals 1874-1984' published by the Scottish Football Historian has details but for finals only.

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Post by nightfire » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:32 am

Thanks for checking.

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Post by Scottish » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:10 pm

BMCCOLL wrote:
I have T McLean replacing A Duncan of Hibs
Quite possible. Need to check a match report to be certain. Either that or ask the man himself if anyone has contact details.

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Post by smokiesnwine » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:59 pm

bobby s wrote: I don't know if smokiesnwine can add anything, but that may have been the only appearance the JON made in his 5 month hibs career. Must have been awfy good in training.
The only other appearance I have a record of O'Neill playing is an Edinburgh League game against St Bernards on the 29th February. He also scored in this game which Hibs won 5-0. In between this game and the Cup Final was a friendly against Celtic, I have no team lines for this but i would imagine he also played in this game.

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Post by Scottish » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:43 pm

O'Neill did play in that game. Hibs: McCall, Robertson, Mount, Paterson, Kennedy, Leighton, P Murray, McCowie, Murdoch, Smith, O'Neill

P Murray is listed as P Murray (2). Presumably there were two players with identical names.

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Post by smokiesnwine » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:07 pm

Thanks for that do you know what the Celtic team was and there scorer?

Yes Hibs had two Patrick Murray's playing for them at this time. They were listed in some paper reports as Pat and Paddy.

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Post by Scottish » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:49 pm

Celtic: Docherty, Dunbar, Orr, O'Rorke, Maley, Battles, Divers, King, Crossan, McMahon, Henderson.

McMahon scored in the first half.

Gordon Baird
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Post by Gordon Baird » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:38 am

bobby s - Hibs played the original Dunfermline FC in 1878, not Athletic. The Dunfermline Journal gives the first Hibs scorer as Donnelly but doesn't mention the others.

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Post by bobby s » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 am

Thanks, David, Smokies and Gordon, I'll update my records accordingly.
It's the Hope I can't stand

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