How should penalty / away goal victories in 2 legged ties be

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Sat31March1928
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How should penalty / away goal victories in 2 legged ties be

Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:07 am

This may be a bit esoteric but I'm currently working on adding 'streaks' to our 'Scottish results' sections.

I'm wondering how to record penalty shoot-outs or away goal 'tie' losses, as regards the 2nd leg result.

For example if a side loses 1-0 in the 1st leg, then wins 1-0 in the 2nd leg but subsequently loses the penalty shoot out.

The 'tie' has been lost but the game itself was a 'victory', I'd be inclined to record these as a loss and a win.

Similarly if a side draws 0-0 in the away leg and 1-1 on the home leg I'd count these as 2 draws.

Thoughts please?
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:55 am

I do the same. If a match has finished level over 90 or 120 minutes then it's a draw. I asterisk away goals wins and note penalty shoot-out results but in terms of records it's the score at the end of 90 or 120 that counts. Otherwise we end up with the situation whereby you say a team 'lost' or 'won' 0-0 or 1-1.

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:05 am

scottish wrote:I do the same. If a match has finished level over 90 or 120 minutes then it's a draw. I asterisk away goals wins and note penalty shoot-out results but in terms of records it's the score at the end of 90 or 120 that counts. Otherwise we end up with the situation whereby you say a team 'lost' or 'won' 0-0 or 1-1.
For 'one-off' games I would count a shoot out loss as a 'loss' e.g. Hearts lost to Airdrie United in the League Cup. I wouldn't count it as a draw. However if it was a 2 legged game it would have been a draw.
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:27 am

From my POV the problem with that is it creates a two-tier approach to results. A draw and penalty loss in the League Cup is a loss but a draw and penalty loss in Europe is a draw. Two different 'results' but an identical outcome.

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:03 pm

I think there is a subtle distinction in a 2 legged 'tie' be this in Europe or when the old League Cup used to have 'home' and 'away' legs of some rounds.

The 'tie' is won or lost on penalty kicks rather than the game itself. The rules relate to both legs together. Therefore the 2 games making up the tie should stand as 'individual' results.

However in a single 'knock out' game the result be it based on penalties or even corners as some games in the 30s and 40s it should count as a loss or a win. Again I know we lost to Airdrie United but beat Gretna to win the Scottish Cup.

On another point should the 'away goals' rule now be done away with?

A good article on WikiPedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Away_goals_rule
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:11 pm

Sat31March1928 wrote: Again I know we lost to Airdrie United but beat Gretna to win the Scottish Cup.
I count both games as draws
Sat31March1928 wrote:On another point should the 'away goals' rule now be done away with?

A good article on WikiPedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Away_goals_rule
Possibly. There always has been an inherent unfairness in that any European ties settled on the away goals rule has seen one team play for 90 minutes away from home and the other for 120. I'm sure that was what caused the mix-up in the Rangers - Sporting Lisbon match referenced in the article. The referee assumed away goals in extra time didn't count.

The growth of mini-league football in UEFA competitions allied to three points for a win has encouraged teams to adopt a more attacking philosophy away from home. Sides nowadays have to gear themselves up to both league and knockout football in the same competition.

Perversely, some teams now play the defensive strategy at home in two leg ties, confident they can nick a goal away. See Rangers 2007-08.

The away goals rule was introduced in a different era. It was standard practice to play for 0-0 draws away. Goalkeepers could receive passbacks from feet. The offside rule favoured defenders much more. It's introduction wasn't so much to settle ties as to encourage away teams to be more positive. It was the penalty shoot-out rule which ended ties being decided on the toss of a coin or after a third match.

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Post by LLD » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:32 pm

Penalty shoot outs and the away goals rule are merely mechanisms to decide which team progresses to the next round/stage in the event of a drawn tie (single game and two legs).

They aren't strictly part of the matches and if they were we would need to record the scorers, which we don't.

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