Edinburgh Football - Local Cups

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HibeeJibee
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Edinburgh Football - Local Cups

Post by HibeeJibee » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:39 pm

Anyone recommend books or other sources (aside from London Hearts + the Hibs Results Archive, already aware of those) with information on the various "local" Senior cups in Edinburgh? Ie. Wilson, Rosebery, Blenheim, Dunedin, Edinburgh Challenge Cup/EOS Shield, EOS Cup* and Edinburgh Cup? Both statistical details and any works including narrative histories...

*which I believe was formed after the 'secession' of all the Fifeshire clubs in 1903? from the EOSFA, and included Hearts and Hibs in early editions...

bobby s
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Post by bobby s » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:01 pm

http://www.hibsprogrammes.co.uk/stats.html is well worth a check - Dave posts here too if there's anything specific.

The Making of Hibernian Volume 1, 2, & 3. by Alan Lugton.

1 is still in print - or it was until I started searching for a link for it, and it appears not to be anymore.

£23 for second hand 1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Hibernia ... 0859765091

£8 for second hand 2 (which is a steal) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... ition=used

I can't even find availability for 3, but worth keeping an eye on abebooks and fleabay.

The books have a listing of all fixtures played by Hibs from 1875-1946 with limited info like competition, score, odds n sods. They have a narrative too often including line ups and general interest.
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LLD
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Post by LLD » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:09 am

George Park's St Bernard's book has an excellent stats section and would be able to fill in their results.

The local press - in addition to the Edinburgh papers, I have found some great info in the likes of the West Lothian Courier during 1880s and 1890s.

I think Hibs' website has a section with all their results.

Programmes from games in the competitions might help? Hearts and Hibs generally issued full size programmes for the Shield final up until the 1970s. I could help with the Meadowbank games in the Shield and City Cup.

HibeeJibee
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Post by HibeeJibee » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:22 pm

Thanks very much guys... I'm concentrating on the EOS Shield, and it is possible to get a reasonable cross-reference and cross-corroboration of results from London Hearts / the Hibernian Results Archive, on the Hibs website / and now that Hibs Programs link. A few errors have cropped up between them all (for example incorrect or illogical dates) which suggest one or more is using another for data: but still very useful core resource.

Anyone got a link for the St Bernards book? I meant to buy it at the time but forgot. Is there a reasonably useful book on Leith Athletic by the way?

LLD - if you could provide a list of Meadowbank games in the Shield I'd be exceptionally grateful, I've got some from games v Hearts or Hibs but ties v Berwick would be missed. Also you may have details on crowds etc. I'd not get elsewhere (team line-ups/scorers too). And helps cross-reference.

Does anyone know what level the Shield was played at in 1990s? Youths?

A huge problem is categorically establishing held-over editions in a couple of cases. Various of aforementioned sources don't match "The Winners"...

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Post by Scottish » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:55 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:
Anyone got a link for the St Bernards book?
See ScottishFA's post here

smokiesnwine
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Post by smokiesnwine » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:57 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:Thanks very much guys... I'm concentrating on the EOS Shield, and it is possible to get a reasonable cross-reference and cross-corroboration of results from London Hearts / the Hibernian Results Archive, on the Hibs website / and now that Hibs Programs link. A few errors have cropped up between them all (for example incorrect or illogical dates) which suggest one or more is using another for data: but still very useful core resource.

...
If you can let me know which dates are out of sync i will check them and correct them if i have them wrong on my website.
I know there are a few games on my site that differ from the official site. This is due to match reports i have been sent which confirm the games weren't played on the dates stated on the official site.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:38 pm

Hello smokiesnwine - I take it you are the operator of the Hibs Programs?

Not a sight I was aware of before but the season fixtures section is really excellent, and I see you have a large database of newspaper clippings of early decades as well. Awesome. I think most of the date errors are with the Official Site (some are really obvious: like a late August date back in Victorian times, that if turned into September becomes a Saturday and is also the date of another EFA Cup tie that day / or a date that has the year wrong. I also think I've found a results that was actually a Hearts game!!).

Once I've collated all my results, I will post any discrepancies up on here.


I'd started working from 1875 up; but it was proving a bit like swimming through soup. So I've switched over to WWII> first to get into the swing of things... Problem is the 1970s are a total guddle. Once Berwick and/or Meadowbank come in coupled with parts being held-over, it's a real mess and I think there are some errors in London Hearts and/or Hibs Programs over what editions some matches were in and/or whether SFs or Finals...

I've already come across several descrepancies with "The Winners" - but having communicated with Bernard Stocks his list was taken from collated data and not the Shield itself. Hopefully I will be able to pull a few strings, or ask for a few favours, through the EOSFA and get Hibs to let me have a look at the actual Shield itself in January. That would be direct solution.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:41 pm

As a chaser to that I've managed to find source for at least some Berwick games (he doesn't know if he's got all details or just some) - and it would be handy if you could provide any Meadowbank details you may have LLD.

The more independent sources I can accumulate, the easier it is to figure out what fits in where/what games were "held over"/who didn't enter, etc.

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