Most players

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
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Most players

Post by BMCCOLL » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:40 am

Anyone have an idea which club has had most players making senior appearances (ie SFL,SPL, associated cups and Scottish Cup)?

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Post by Scottish » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm

I'd hazard a guess at it being one of three. Based on the fact that only St Mirren and Hearts have taken part in every league season as well as the OF but the Glaswegian clubs have played far more cup ties and hence will have called on the services of more players. Going further, Rangers have a fifteen years head start over Celtic in the Scottish Cup so it's most likely them.

Set against that the OF usually have more consistency of selection. For instance Clyde have 150 entries more than Celtic in John Litster's pre-war disk and Hearts have 2,823 entries compared to Rangers' 2,320.

However many of these are duplicates and each entry is per season. So twenty players with one season appear as often as one player with twenty seasons. Also, unlike his post-war disk, the pre-war one contains many players who made no first team appearances whatsoever. Even so that's a significant difference over nearly fifty years (ten entries a season on average) so Hearts must be considered.

At a stretch you might include those clubs who joined the league in its early years. But not one that joined after, say, 1895 at the latest and not one which missed any seasons (Dumbarton, Dundee) after that.

That leaves the original four of the OF, Hearts & St Mirren plus Hibs, Clyde, Killie, Partick Thistle, Motherwell & Morton. But I doubt if you need to go past the first three.

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Post by BMCCOLL » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:26 am

Thanks, David

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:09 am

Since WWII up to the end of 2009 in competitive games

Rangers used 453 players and Hearts used 469.

Rangers had used 953 up to the end of the end of 2009.

The Rangers figures are based on the spreadsheet of Rangers results that was posted on here a couple of years back.

I don't have the complete Hearts line ups pre 1946 However IIRC according to David Speed (Hearts Historian) Hearts have had well over 1,000 unique players who have made a first team appearances.

I'll check with David and come back to you with a more definitive Hearts figure.
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:30 am

I estimate between 1070-1100 for Killie, up to 2009-10. Bear in mind that line-ups are missing here for several early Scottish Cup ties.

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Post by bobby s » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:55 am

It's around 1100 unique players for Hibs in the major competitive fixtures from 1875 to now, of which about 75 was for the period 1875 to 1893, it's around 475 since the end of WWII, depending on whether you start with 1945-46 or 46-47.

Edit: I should qualify that this includes the war years 1914-1918 & 1939-1945 in the 1100 total.
Last edited by bobby s on Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:26 am

Perhaps surprisingly there are around 1350 players up to 2002 in the official Partick Thistle history. However this includes 1939-45 and Glasgow and Charity Cups as well as some possible duplicates. Litster gives 2,300 entries for 1893-1946 for the Jags, more or less the same as Rangers. Difficult to believe they have around 50% more than Rangers with the past eight years still tobe added.

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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:45 am

Litster entries (NOT players) 1893-1946 for candidate clubs

Celtic 1943
Clyde 2098
Hearts 2823
Hibs 1886
Killie 1933
Morton 1908
Motherwell 1967
Partick 2301
Rangers 2323
St Mirren 2361

I'll also throw in Dundee as even taking out the two seasons (1917-1919) they didn't play league football they still have around 2,200 entries. Of course they have no pre-league Scottish Cup players to add to that figure.

Remember, these include WW2, duplicates and are one entry per season per player. They do not include pre-league Scottish Cup ties at all and in other cases do not include Scottish Cup ties up to 1893.

Bearing in mind all caveats that’s a sizeable ‘lead’ for Hearts.

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:29 pm

Just spoken to David Speed and the Hearts figure is

1177 up to the end of last season. That may be a few short (2 or 3 probably) as there are missing line ups from a few of the early Cup matches.

He was including Texaco Cup games but they had no impact on the final figure as every player who played in those played in another competitive competition.
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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:15 pm

I've just done a count on the Post WWII Lister disc where players have at least 1 appearance on the Lister Disc. This is with 'duplicates' removed.

Albion Rovers 1078
Cowdenbeath 945
East Stirlingshire 902
Hamilton Academical 887
Stenhousemuir 866
Dumbarton 834
Alloa Athletic 831
Berwick Rangers 815
Forfar Athletic 801
Stirling Albion 769
Arbroath 749
Raith Rovers 743
Queen of the South 740
Ayr United 734
Stranraer 725
Morton 720
East Fife 692
Falkirk 691
St Johnstone 669
Dundee United 658
Dunfermline Athletic 650
Brechin City 641
Partick Thistle 636
Montrose 628
Queens Park 625
Clyde 599
St Mirren 595
Airdrieonians 525
Dundee 521
Motherwell 509
Kilmarnock 500
Hibernian 479
Aberdeen 461
Heart Of Midlothian 447
Rangers 445
Celtic 430
Clydebank[4] 408
Third Lanark 262
Livingston 222
Meadowbank 216
Ross County 195
Elgin City 151
Inverness Caledonian Thistle 118
Peterhead 114
Gretna 101
Airdrie United 75
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:42 pm

At first glance that turns my assumptions upside down - certainly for the post-war period. However, lower division sies are much more likely to throw in whatever player is available or make a short-term signing. But Albion Rovers, Cowdenbeath & East Stirlingshire all have only around 1,300 pre-war entries. Accies have 1843. The one I can't understand is Thistle. They have almost 200 more players than Hearts post-war but also seemingly 200 more in total despite the big difference in pre-war entries.

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:24 pm

I've had a quick look at the Albion Rovers list and there may be duplicates as there are lots of players listed by

I Sssssssss

I=Initial
Ssssssss=Surname

or just Surname
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:21 pm

Sat31March1928 wrote:I've had a quick look at the Albion Rovers list and there may be duplicates as there are lots of players listed by

I Sssssssss

I=Initial
Ssssssss=Surname

or just Surname
I suspect the same will be true of other clubs as well but the ones with the most players will, presumably, have the most duplicates. Also, while the pre-war disk is of all registered players and the post-war disk for those who made at least one senior appearance, that appearance is a career one, not a club one. Hence there are players there who will have made appearances for some clubs but only signed for others and made no appearances with them.

The first alphabetical example I can find for Albion Rovers is Jason Alexander who signed for Rovers from Hibs (but isn't listed as a Hibs player), made no appearances for the Coatbridge club, then went on to Montrose where he made a couple of sub appearances before having his contract cancelled.

There will be others like that.

It was no great surprise that Alexander was freed at Links Park as he was pushing fifty and overweight. But he had been part of a great back four throughout the 1990s.

Image

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Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:17 pm

There are 297 players from Albion Rovers who made only 1 or 2 appearances

A Crossan 1
A Kennedy 1
A Macis 1
A McKee 1
A McQuade 1
A Morrison 2
A Percy 1
A Wright 1
Adam Jamieson 1
Adrian Paul McKenna 2
Aitken 1
Alan [1] Reid 1
Alan Dinnie 2
Alec Morrison 1
Alex [1] McKay 1
Alex Reid 1
Alexander Paterson 1
Alexander Sharp 1
Alfredo R Renucci 1
Anderson 2
Andrew Batton 1
Andrew Dunsmore 2
Andrew Morrison McCondichie 2
Archibald H Robertson 2
Archie Robertson 2
Armand One 2
Ayrton Inacio 1
B Kerr 2
B McTague 1
B Watson 1
Bernard John Duffy 2
Bert Howieson 1
Billingham 1
Bob Park 2
Bobby Slaven 1
Booth 1
Brannigan 1
Brian [2] Hamilton 1
Brian Wallace 1
Bruce Iain Meikle Livingston 2
Bryans 1
Byrne 1
C Baxter 1
C Johnson 1
C Lamb 1
C Miller 2
C Nolan 1
C Walker 1
Cannon 1
Charles Hassard 1
Charles McMullan 2
Charlie Egan 1
Christopher John McGowan 2
Clark 1
Connolly 1
Craig Andrew Stevenson 1
Craig Peter Hinchcliffe 1
Crease 1
Currie 1
D Gault 2
D Maxwell 1
D McSpadyen 1
D Murray 1
D O'Donnell 1
D Stewart 2
D Tomnay 1
D Watson 1
Damien David Alexander 2
David [3] Campbell 1
Delaney 1
Derek Vennard 1
Dick 1
Dixon 1
Donald M Hamilton 1
Donaldson 1
Dorran 1
Dorward 1
Eddie Pryce 1
Edward McShane 1
Evans 1
F Boyle 1
F Grant 1
F Young 2
Flannigan 1
Fleming 2
Francis David Paul McNeill 1
Frank Denholm 1
Frank Williams 1
Fraser 2
Fraser Preston 1
G Andrews 2
G Dodds 1
G Friels 1
G Gibb 1
G Gillanders 1
G Martin 1
G McKenzie 1
G Meikle 1
G Walker 1
Gary A King 1
Gary Bollan 2
Gary David Robertson 1
Gary Goldie 1
George [1] Fraser 2
George L Taylor 1
George Stirling 1
Gerry 1
Gill 1
Gow 1
Greig Paterson Denham 1
H McGowan 1
Hamilton 1
Harry Cross 1
Heal 1
Heron 1
Hugh McPherson 2
Hunt 1
I Beveridge 2
I Kennedy 1
I Robertson 1
Ian [3] Reid 1
Ian Alexander Dobbins 1
Ian Cameron Dick 1
Ian Gray 1
Ian Stephen 2
Irvine 1
J Atkins 1
J Barrie 1
J Burns 1
J Devine 1
J Hadden 1
J Higgins 2
J King 1
J Macfarlane 1
J McCue 2
J McFadyen 2
J McGuire 1
J McKay 1
J McLeod 1
J McMillan 1
J Pathak 1
J Rae 2
J Reilly 1
J Richardson 1
J Robertson 1
J Rodger 1
J Rodgers 2
J Smith 1
J Walker 1
Jack Gilroy 1
James [1] Burns 1
James [1] Dunbar 2
James [1] Fullarton 2
James [6] Anderson 1
James Alan Irvine 1
James C Miller 2
James Cowell 2
James Lang 2
James Prior 1
James W Sinnet 1
Jim [1] Blair 1
Jim Ballock 1
Joe Zangrandie 1
John [1] Bonnar 1
John [1] McIntyre 2
John [1] McNeil 1
John [2] Cochrane 1
John [2] McLaughlan 1
John [2] Phillips 2
John Boyle 1
John Coutts 1
John Kelly (Dixie) Deans 1
John Meechan 1
John Taggart 1
Johnny Blair 1
Johnstone 1
Jose Manuel Quitongo 1
Joseph Tolmie 1
K Boyce 1
Kelly 1
Ken Brodie 1
Kenneth Alexander Caw 2
Kenneth Hadden 1
Kenneth McQuade 2
Laing 1
Lynch 1
M Brown 1
M Craig 1
M Doran 1
M McGill 1
Mackie 1
Malone 2
Mark Quinn 2
Marr 1
Matt Tyrie 1
Matthew [1] Carr 1
McAdam 1
McColligan 1
McCulloch 1
McGillvray 1
McGlone 1
McGowan 1
McKean 1
McKinnon 1
McLean 1
McNairn 1
Michael Jamieson 2
Mike Fascioni 2
Mill 1
Miller 2
Moffat 1
Moran 1
Morgan 1
Mortimer 1
Muir 1
Murray 1
N Fulton 1
N Jeffries 1
Nelson 1
Niven 1
O Dougan 1
P Daley 1
P Kiernan 1
P McShane 2
Pat Quinn 2
Paterson 1
Patrick Dempsey 1
Paul Connell 1
Paul Stewart 1
Peter Kane 1
Peter Rice 1
R Best 1
R Brown 2
R McFetridge 1
R McGuigan 1
R McMahon 1
R Mulholland 1
R Sullivan 2
R Thomson 1
R Wilson 1
Reynolds 1
Richard Curran 1
Robb 1
Robert [1] Murray 2
Robert Arthur 2
Robert Cumming 2
Robert James McColm 1
Robert Love 1
Robert McConville 1
Robert Praties 1
Robert Somerville 1
Rodger 1
Ron (William R D) Fraser 2
Ronald Yule 2
S Bulloch 1
S Clark 1
S Miller 1
S Montgomery 1
S Quinn 2
S Smith 1
Sam Hadcroft 1
Shearer 1
Sheridan 1
Shields 1
Smith 2
Somerville 1
Stephen Hugh Murphy 1
Steven Kerr 1
Stewart 2
Stuart Alexander Robertson 1
Stuart Robertson 1
T Gibson 2
T Graham 1
T McCafferty 1
T McKay 1
Thomas [1] Murray 2
Thomas Coyne 1
Tom McIntosh 1
Tom Pedlar 1
Torrance 1
Turner 1
Ure 1
V Gardiner 1
W Callaghan 1
W Graham 1
W McAlaney 2
W McColl 1
W McMeekin 1
W Paul 1
W Russell 1
William Haughey 1
William Murdoch Morrison Whigham 1
William Struthers 1
William Taylor 1
William Vandermotten 1
Willie [1] Graham 2
Willie junior Duff 1
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Post by Scottish » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:12 pm

Going back to pre-war I make 820 unique entries for Hearts and 526 for Albion Rovers from the Litster disk. There will be more additional Hearts players in the Scottish Cup than Rovers.

Another point is that given the 'pre-war' disk goes up to 1946, many of the post-war players in the first few seasons will also feature on the 'pre-war' disk.

I'll work out all the 'pre-war' unique entries and post them later.

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