Scottish Rovers

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Bristol Rovers
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Scottish Rovers

Post by Bristol Rovers » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:30 am

I am hoping some of you intelligent, good-looking researchers may be able to help me track down on a handful of pre-WW2 Scottish players who appeared for Bristol Rovers during their careers. If you need more career details, etc I can easily supply. Very grateful for any help, ideas, leads, etc.

I am looking for accurate dates of birth for the following:
Andrew Dick (Aberdeen, 1922-24), born Aberdeen 1900, died in Kennoway (date?)
Alexander Millar (East Fife, 1933-35, 1943 Hearts, 1947 Forfar Ath), 1915-1973 (any dates?) (does anyone have details of apps/goals at Hearts or Forfar?)
Robert Plenderleith (East Fife, 1927-28), born in Fife 1909, died 30.4.74 London
Frank/Francis Roberts, born Motherwell 1902, died ? (in 1920s at Queen's Park, Cowdenbeath, Rangers three times apparently, Alloa A, St Johnstone, Ayr U)

And accurate dates of death for:
George McIntosh Barton (Raith R, 1921-28), 15.10.99 - died Weston-super-Mare 3q 1970
Michael Docherty Cosgrove (Aberdeen, 1924-28) 20.5.01- Dec 1972 Erie, New York
Alexander Crichton (Blantyre Vics, 1923-24) 12.6.99 - died?
Alexander Donald (Partick Th, 1925-26) - was he at Dunfermline Ath, 1936-37? (apps?) - 29.5.00 - died? (perhaps had a brother John - anyone know?)
Alexander Findlay (Musselburgh Bruntonians, 1929-30), 26.12.02 - died Oct 85 Bristol - was he a brother of William (Liverpool, Leicester C, Watford, 1900-49)
Frederick James Forbes (Hearts, 1920-22, Leith A, 31-32, Airdrie, 33-34) 5.8.94 - died?
Robert Gardiner (Dundee U, 33-36, 41-2) 2.9.12 - died Apr 93 Dundee
William Blyth Gillespie (East Fife - 356 apps, I believe - was he at St Mirren, 30-31(apps?)) - 29.10.03 - died?
David Brown Kenny (Falkirk, 11-12 - apps/goals?) 22.5.91 - died?
Alfred King (St Bernard's, 1931- apps/gls?) 6.6.06 - died?
Robert McKay (Scottish cap, 1927) 2.9.00 - died 1977? (says Wikipedia)
John Wilson Paterson (Wellesley Juniors, 1927-28) 13.4.04 - died Canada?
James Smith (66 gls in season man) - date of death in Bridgepoint, Connecticut in 1975?
John Thom (Hurlford Thistle, 1916-22) 18.5.99 - died Aug 66 Aldershot
John Yungmann Thomson (Partick Th, 23-4) 27.7.96 - died May 80 Westchester, New York
William Thomson (Clyde, 12-14, Arthurlie, 15-16 - apps/gls?) born Parkhead 3.1.95 - died?
John Boyd Watson (St Anthony's, Glasgow, 30-32) born Govan 14.8.10 - died Tunbridge Wells, 1978
William Walter White (ex-Musselburgh Bruntonians) born Kirkcaldy 26.7.07 - died?

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:52 am

David Brown Kenny? No Falkirk player [well one that played for the first team anyway] of that name.

Falkirk players who played for Bristol Rovers Pre WWII [that I know of] of course the information I have comes from sources that might be quite mistaken, apologies in advance!

Frederick Kemp b c1887, Tottenham, London
Known Career – Dundee [1908/09], Woolwich Arsenal [1908/09], Falkirk [1908/09-1909/10], West Ham United,
Bristol Rovers

John Muir b 18th November 1903, Hamilton, Lanarkshire
Known Career – Broxburn United [1924/25-1925/26], Stockport County [1925/26], Queen of
the South [1926/27], Dumbarton [1927/28], Armadale [1927/28-1928/29], Falkirk [1928/29-
1929/30], Luton Town [1930/31], Bristol Rovers [1930/31-1931/32], Bo'ness [1932/33],
Arbroath [1932/33-1934/35]

John Richardson b c1909, Johannesburg, South Africa, d 23rd May 1977, Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Known Career – Wallacestone, Bristol Rovers [1930/31], Falkirk [1930/31-1933/34], Alloa Athletic [1934/35-
1935/36], Leith Athletic [1936/37-1938/39], East Stirlingshire [1938/39]

John Stevenson b 27th February 1898, Wigan, Lancashire
Known Career – Kilbirnie Hibernian, Ayr United [1920/21], Aberdeen [1921/22], Beith [1922/23], Bury [1922/23-
1924/25], Nelson [1924/25-1926/27], St Johnstone [1927/28-1929/30], Falkirk [1930/31-1931/32], Chester [1932/33],
Bristol Rovers [1932/33], Carlisle United [1933/34-1934/35]

Archibald Taylor b c1882, Dundee, Angus
Known Career – East Craigie, Dundee [1900/01-1903/04], Raith Rovers [1902/03-1903/04], Bolton Wanderers
[1904/05], Bristol Rovers, Brentford, West Ham United [1907/08-1908/09], Falkirk [1909/10], Huddersfield Town
[1910/11], Barnsley [1911/12-1912/13], York City
Later Manager of York City

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Bristol Rovers » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 am

Thank you, John, for your answer. David Kenny may, of course, have only been on trial at Falkirk. I will keep searching.

In response to your other players:
Fred Kemp never made the first-team at Eastville.

John Baker Muir - I have a date of death as 29 April 1949 in Hamilton. I believe he was at QoS and Bo'ness prior to Broxburn (1924); then left Arbroath in Aug 1935 to join East Stirlingshire.

John Richardson - I have only c1909 for birth; thanks for the date of death, which I didn't have. Prior to Rovers was at Wallacetown Wesleyans, then at Wallacestone Welfare, then to Rovers.

John Alexander Stevenson - I have date of death as 12 March 1979 in Carlisle. Was on trial at Sunderland in 1920, prior to his move to Ayr Utd. May 1935 left Carlisle for what was frustratingly reported in the press as "local football in NW England". His brother George played for Motherwell and Scotland (was he also English-born?).

Archie Taylor - I have his career as you say, except for a trial back at Dundee in Aug 1903. He may be the Archibald Taylor listed at St David's Lane, Dundee in the 1881 census, where he is given as ten months (census taken on 3 Apr 1881, so perhaps born May 1880), son of James and Margaret Stevenson. His father was dead before the 1891 census. Archie, if this is him, is listed in the 1901 census as a shipyard labourer at 117 Princes St, Dundee. Is this the right man?

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:37 am

Bristol Rovers wrote: John Richardson - I have only c1909 for birth; thanks for the date of death, which I didn't have. Prior to Rovers was at Wallacetown Wesleyans, then at Wallacestone Welfare, then to Rovers.

Archie Taylor - I have his career as you say, except for a trial back at Dundee in Aug 1903. He may be the Archibald Taylor listed at St David's Lane, Dundee in the 1881 census, where he is given as ten months (census taken on 3 Apr 1881, so perhaps born May 1880), son of James and Margaret Stevenson. His father was dead before the 1891 census. Archie, if this is him, is listed in the 1901 census as a shipyard labourer at 117 Princes St, Dundee. Is this the right man?
I have John Richardson's obit at home I'll try to remember to send it to you. In the meantime a bit of blatant self plugging, a blog post about early Falkirk FC overseas players.

I really don't know much about Archie Taylor, but it was mentioned that he lived in Watson Street, Falkirk in 1909,

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Gordon Baird » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:29 pm

Alex Donald made seven league appearances for Dunfermline during 1936/37. Sorry, no idea when he died or if he had a brother named John.

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:52 pm

As i said I would, here is what I said -

Falkirk Herald - Sat 28th May 1977

Obituary

"Death of Johnny Richardson

Johnny Richardson, a half-back with Falkirk in the 1930s, died on Monday. Mr Richardson, who lived at 31 Dovecot Road, Westquarter, had been ill for two years.
Born in South Africa, he spent most of his life over here and played in the same bairns team as Bob Shankly, Jimmy Bartram and Hugh Hamill.
As well as playing at Brockville, he had spells at Kilmarnock and Alloa.
Cricket was another of his loves and he was one of the founder members of Redding and Westquarter Cricket Club.
Mr Richardson, who was 69 years of age, is survived by his wife, four sons and a daughter."

Births, deaths & marriages

"Richardson, - At Falkirk Royal Infirmary, on Mon 23 May 1977, William John Richardson, aged 68 years, dearly loved husband of Bunty Rankin, 31 Dovecot Road, Westquarter.
Sadly missed."

NB - I wouldn't take everything here as gospel, as I know nothing about him ever playing for Kilmarnock [note that there is no timeframe given, so is possible misinformation given by a family member, or somebody at Brockville who had their facts mixed up], also note that the age given in the obit [in the sports section] is different to the age submitted [presumably by his wife] to the "Births, Deaths and Marriages" section, and that also gives him as William John, which I've never seen before or since.

Here is Dovecote Road in Westquarter by google streetview, by the way it is pronounced 'duckit' in these parts :)

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Scottish » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:09 am

John Meffen wrote: by the way it is pronounced 'duckit' in these parts :)
Fraight-fully poash. Should be 'dookit.'

No player of that name with Killie btw.

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:38 am

scottish wrote:
John Meffen wrote: by the way it is pronounced 'duckit' in these parts :)
Fraight-fully poash. Should be 'dookit.'
Well all I'll say is that we, in Fa'kirk, never do anything like Ayrshire folk, deliberately!

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Bristol Rovers » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:56 am

In a shameless attempt to keep this topic alive, in the hope someone might have more information ....
Does anyone know anything about the Scottish League career of James Durkan (born Bannockburn, 14.7.1915 - died Glasgow, 10.3.1990)? He started at King's Park, went to Cardiff City in Feb 1934, Bristol Rovers in July 1934 (2 Football League apps at full-back), Aug 1935 back to King's Park. Does anyone know any details of his time at king's Park or where he was after that. Did he ever play in the Scottish League?

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:37 am

Bristol Rovers wrote:
John Baker Muir - I have a date of death as 29 April 1949 in Hamilton. I believe he was at QoS and Bo'ness prior to Broxburn (1924); then left Arbroath in Aug 1935 to join East Stirlingshire.
Came across this last night when looking for something completely different

Falkirk Mail Sat 11th Apr 1931

"Muir, the ex-Falkirk centre half is giving great satisfaction to the management of Raith Rovers who secured his transfer from Luton Town some time ago."

I had no note of him at Raith then, don't know if you did, anyway, it seems that he was!

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Scottish » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:55 am

John Meffen wrote: Came across this last night when looking for something completely different

Falkirk Mail Sat 11th Apr 1931

"Muir, the ex-Falkirk centre half is giving great satisfaction to the management of Raith Rovers who secured his transfer from Luton Town some time ago."

I had no note of him at Raith then, don't know if you did, anyway, it seems that he was!
Strange. John Litster's Raith history has no mention of this player nor does his pre-war disk have him at Raith either.

John Meffen

Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by John Meffen » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:34 pm

It could, of course, have been a mistake on the part of a journo at the mail, but I dont see how they would get it that wrong, unless it wasn't a football journalist!

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Bristol Rovers » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:21 pm

It is difficult to understand what the reporter meant when he mentioned Raith Rovers. On 11th April 1931, Muir played in Bristol Rovers' 3-0 win v Norwich City. He joined Rovers on trial on 6th March 1931, made his debut v Fulham on 14th March and signed for £10, reportedly direct from Luton Town for £10 (a princely sum!) on 4th May 1931.

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:25 am

A Raith Rovers connection is not made in Michaerl Joyce`s pre war Players` Records book either.

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Re: Scottish Rovers

Post by Bristol Rovers » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:48 am

I mentioned Andrew Dick on this thread earlier. After leaving Bristol Rovers in May 1927, he was apparently with Motherwell, then Ayr Utd, then back for a second spell at Aberdeen. I don't have any dates for those moves at all. Does anyone know any dates or have any information on games and goals post-1927, please? All I know is that he was a scaffolder and his date and place of death.

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