Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby RobertB » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:05 pm

BMCCOLL wrote:Litster has a Robertson being with Forfar from 1937-38, no other details though apart from being noted as a RB, the Robertson we have is a RH, close enough??? In any case, Robertson is omitted from the Courier's line-up so we can take it that Bingham did indeed replace Robertson from the original selection.


Brian, I am a novice regards finding inaccuracies shall we say... one I did find a few years ago, as youll know teams were listed before games on lots of occasions but some changed did happen. When Arthurlie played Fauldhouse in the junior final in 1946 the programme listed the Arthurlie side, the one that had basically played in all but one game to get there. Listed on various sites as the team on that day its wrong, the left back Ormond, whose brother played wing half, was on national service with the navy and they refused him leave, I did an article for the Arthurlie programme and local press that covered the starting eleven, Coyle took his place, but rather than 1-11 I did 12 and called him the 'odd man out'
RobertB
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:29 am

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:06 am

BMCCOLL wrote:Litster has a Robertson being with Forfar from 1937-38, no other details though apart from being noted as a RB, the Robertson we have is a RH, close enough??? In any case, Robertson is omitted from the Courier's line-up so we can take it that Bingham did indeed replace Robertson from the original selection.


I think our guy is also shown in John Litster’s disk as “Robertson, Hugh [3]”. He signed for St Johnstone on 6 October 1938 and played one game as a right back in a 1:3 away defeat by Clyde on 10 January 1939. He was described in the Dundee Courier of 10 January 1939 as “the ex-Perth Junior”.

However, it looks as if the two records are the same player. Hugh Robertson (St Johnstone YMCA) was reserve for the Junior International against Ireland on 5 March 1932 and rumoured to be going to be playing some trial games for a Fife Second Division club towards the end of the 1932/33 season. However, he was back playing for St Johnstone YMCA in 1933.
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:16 pm

To close this off I have found that Hugh Robertson was effectively signed by Wrexham immediately after the Perth Junior Cup Final on 20 March 1937 where he had been watched by Wrexham’s Scottish manager, Jimmy Logan. As we know from RobertB the reserve Bert Bingham (Arthurlie) was brought into the XI and I have found that Clark (Portobello Renton) was called up as travelling reserve. I was hoping for some intrigue with Wrexham signing him on the morning of the Junior International as he left the team hotel in Bangor to buy a ‘paper!
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:36 am

sureitsza wrote:The is a Bingham of Pollok winning a cap v Wales in 1925.


Yes it is the same player. I am wondering how many other players were capped at three different clubs? Albert “Bert” Bingham played for Irvine Meadow XI from 1927 to 1934. He was selected as the reserve centre half for the International against Ireland on 3 March 1934 in Belfast before getting into the starting XI for the next two internationals.

Junior International caps

Irvine Meadow XI - 7 April 1934 v England at Dens Park 3-0 Win
Irvine Meadow XI - 21 April 1934 v Wales at Tynecastle Park at 6-2 Win
Pollok - 4 May 1935 v Wales at Portmadoc 1-1 Draw
Arthurlie - 10 Apr 1937 v Wales at Bangor 2-1 Win

Other representative games while at Irvine Meadow XI

1931-32 Played for Western League v Cumnock & Mauchline FA at Auchinleck (no other details known)
1932-33 Played for Western League v Central League at Cappielow Park, Greenock (no other details known)
1933-34 14 Apr 1934 Played and captained the West of Scotland JFA v East of Scotland Junior Football Association at Gymnasium Park, Edinburgh 3:1 Win
1933- 34 1 Jan 1934 Played for Western League v Central League at Recreation Park, Stevenston 3:2 Win
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby RobertB » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:49 pm

Is there a list of representative matches for that period anywhere?
RobertB
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:29 am

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby EastJunior » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 pm

bluedragon wrote:1933-34 14 Apr 1934 Played and captained the West of Scotland JFA v East of Scotland Junior Football Association at Gymnasium Park, Edinburgh 3:1 Win


Do you happen to have the line-ups for this game at all?
EastJunior
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:28 pm

RobertB wrote:Is there a list of representative matches for that period anywhere?

The only list I am aware of is the one of Junior Internationals that includes some other non-international matches played by the SJFA XI. This is on Brian McColl's excellent Scottish Football Historical Archive website. Through a previous thread on this forum Brian brought together incomplete details held by others into a single virtually complete list.
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:30 pm

EastJunior wrote:
bluedragon wrote:1933-34 14 Apr 1934 Played and captained the West of Scotland JFA v East of Scotland Junior Football Association at Gymnasium Park, Edinburgh 3:1 Win


Do you happen to have the line-ups for this game at all?



I only have the West of Scotland team.

Brown (Glenburn Rovers); Johnstone (Irvine Victoria) and Dewar (Strathclyde); McBride (Clydebank), Bingham (Irvine Meadow XI) (captain) and Winning (Shawfield); Yuille (Parkhead), Graham (Vale of Clyde), McAteer (Rutheglen Glencairn), Connwell (Arthurlie) and Ferguson (Shieldmuir Celtic)

Reserves: McCulloch (Glasgow Perthshire); Hutton (Cambuslang Rangers) and Borland (Bridgeton Waverley); Morris (Parkhead), Pettigrew (Shieldmuir Celtic) and Sneddon (Wishaw); McCombe (Wishaw), McInally (Wishaw), Dale (Kilwinning Rangers), A Black (Shawfield) and Donnelly (Kirkkintilloch Rob Roy)

Reserve to travel: McInally (Wishaw),

Trainer: J Stark (Shawfield)

Source: Bellshill Speaker - Friday 13 April 1934
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby RobertB » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:20 pm

Thanks for the tip, I use Brians site a lot but never thought to check for the representative games there. Also thanks for that line up there as Connwell of Arthurlie is included and I was unaware of that. First Arthurlie junior international and I 'think' the appearance you list there must be just before he moved to Aberdeen.

Thanks
RobertB
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:29 am

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:20 am

RobertB wrote:Thanks for the tip, I use Brians site a lot but never thought to check for the representative games there. Also thanks for that line up there as Connwell of Arthurlie is included and I was unaware of that. First Arthurlie junior international and I 'think' the appearance you list there must be just before he moved to Aberdeen.

Thanks


Connwell/Conwell was already a Renfrewshire player but appears to have come to the fore when he played for the Central League in the annual fixture against the Irish Intermediate League at Firhill on 17 March 1934. He was provisionally signed by Aberdeen after that match. Here are a few newspaper extracts I could find.

A couple of points:

1) the first of his two Junior International matches was at Dens Park and the game is exceptionally covered by the Dundee newspapers.

2) Despite some doubt in some newspapers the Aberdeen newspapers were clear that he was a Dons’ provisional signing after that Firhill match.

Falkirk Herald - Wednesday 21 February 1934

Renfrewshire team to play Stirlingshire but at that point the date had not been fixed.

Dunn (Renfrew); Clark (Arthurlie) and Dean (Refrew); Corrance (Refrew), M’Larty (Port Glasgow) and Browning (Dunoon Athletic); Pearce (Arthurlie), Smith (Gleniffer Star), M’Leod (Neilston Victoria), Conwell (Arthurlie) and Laverty (Port Glasgow)
Reserve: Edwards (Rothesay Victoria)

Dundee Evening Telegraph - Wednesday 21 March 1934

Pat Travers, Aberdeen’s manager, was at Firhill on Saturday witnessing the Central League and Irish League match and, his time was not exactly wasted. He has fixed up Lawrence Conwell, an inside-forward with Arthurlie, to join up at Pittodrie at the end of the junior season.

Dundee Evening Telegraph - Thursday 5 April 1934

Thumbnail sketches of the Junior Scotland team

Laurence Conwell (Arthurlie) – Anotheer whose display for the Central League set the hall-mark on him. A great player to watch in action, he was stated to be fixed up for Aberdeen. But that’s bunkum.He is likely to land with St Mirren. An Airdrie lad, he went from Rawyards Celtic to Arthurlie last season. Height 5 ft. 8 in. Weight 11 st.

Dundee Courier - Saturday 07 April 1934

Conwell (Arthurlie), inside left. One of the most skilful players in the west. Is 21 years of age, 5ft. 8 in. 11st weight. A most versatile player, being at home anywhere in attack. Accuracy in passing features his play. Is expected to sign for Aberdeen. Played for Central League but this is his first SJFA honour.

In his match report the Dundee Courier reporter was hard to please and despite Conwell scoring all three goals in a 3:0 win he said: “I did not regard the Arthurlie lad as ranking as the cutest of the attack.

However, the Scotsman correspondent said: “The day was a proud one for Conwell, Arthurlie, the Scots inside left forward, who scored all three goals, He always seemed to be in the right place at the right moment in order to convert good work done by his colleagues.
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby EastJunior » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:53 am

bluedragon wrote:
EastJunior wrote:
bluedragon wrote:1933-34 14 Apr 1934 Played and captained the West of Scotland JFA v East of Scotland Junior Football Association at Gymnasium Park, Edinburgh 3:1 Win


Do you happen to have the line-ups for this game at all?



I only have the West of Scotland team.

Brown (Glenburn Rovers); Johnstone (Irvine Victoria) and Dewar (Strathclyde); McBride (Clydebank), Bingham (Irvine Meadow XI) (captain) and Winning (Shawfield); Yuille (Parkhead), Graham (Vale of Clyde), McAteer (Rutheglen Glencairn), Connwell (Arthurlie) and Ferguson (Shieldmuir Celtic)

Reserves: McCulloch (Glasgow Perthshire); Hutton (Cambuslang Rangers) and Borland (Bridgeton Waverley); Morris (Parkhead), Pettigrew (Shieldmuir Celtic) and Sneddon (Wishaw); McCombe (Wishaw), McInally (Wishaw), Dale (Kilwinning Rangers), A Black (Shawfield) and Donnelly (Kirkkintilloch Rob Roy)

Reserve to travel: McInally (Wishaw),

Trainer: J Stark (Shawfield)

Source: Bellshill Speaker - Friday 13 April 1934


Thanks for that, it was the East of Scotland team I was hoping to get a note of, I'll need to do a little digging.
EastJunior
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby bluedragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:15 pm

I have found the East of Scotland team in the Edinburgh Evening News of Friday 13 April 1934.

Farr (Blackburn Athletic); Telfer (Tranent Juniors) (captain) and Peterkin (Rosewell Rosedale); Welsh (Thorntree United), Hill (Rosewell Rosedale) and M’Kenzie (Fauldhouse United); Markle (Bo’ness Cadora), Brown (Linlithgow Rose), Donoghue (Musselburgh Bruntonians), Stewart (Fauldhouse United) and Banks (Bo’ness Cadora).

Referee Sergeant Cockburn

The preview of the game said:

The West of Scotland ranks include Bingham, centre half, and Connell (sic), inside left, who impressed everyone with their display in the international game against England at Dens Park.

This match was the fourth annual match between East and West since the series had been revived.

In the Monday edition the view of the game was poor both as a match and of assisting the selectors. It should have been a draw and the West were fortunate to score their final two goals in the last three minutes of the game. Only Banks, Winning and Conwell impressed the reporter. There are no names of the goal scorers.
bluedragon
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Scottish Junior Internationals 1937 and 1938

Postby EastJunior » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:29 am

Many thanks
EastJunior
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:25 am

Previous

Return to SFAQS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

cron