Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

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soccerhistory
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Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by soccerhistory » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:08 pm

I have recently read that a Scottish amateur team visited Kenya for approx 2 weeks around the beginning of December 1963 to take part in matches linked to the country's independence celebrations.

Does anyone have any information on this - for example, matches played, whether these were considered to be international matches or not, plus line-ups, etc.

Any help would be much appreciated.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by Rob R » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:57 pm

Results of the matches for the Uhuru Independence Cup were 8/12/63 Uganda 0 Scotland 3, 11/12/63 Tanganika 2 Scotland 7 14/12/63 Kenya 3 Scotland 2. Kenya piped Scotland by 5 points to 4 to take the trophy, AFAIK The Scotland Party was made up of the usual Queens Park brigade with a few others and a young groundstaff boy from Leeds United called Peter Lorimer who was Scotlands top scorer in the tournament

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by Rob R » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:57 am

Forgot to add all games were played in Nairobi.

soccerhistory
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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by soccerhistory » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:18 am

Thanks for the prompt reply. Anyone know if these are classed as full amateur internationals and any idea where I could find the line-ups.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by ScottishFA » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:54 pm

Here are the teams from George Campbell's book on Scottish Amateur Internationals:

Scotland 3 Uganda 0
RB Clark, J Pollatschek, W Neil, JI Stewart, JS Cole, DC Grant, NC Hopper, DA Millar, PG Buchanan (all QP), PP Lorimer (Leeds United), T McLean (Kilmarnock).

Scotland 7 Tanganyika 2
Same team except CE Higgens (QP) in place of Tommy McLean

Scotland 2 Kenya 3
Same team as in match 2

A few other points:
I think the date for the third match was 15 December, not 14.
The games were played in the delightfully named Doonholm Stadium, Nairobi (now simply the Nairobi Stadium).
They did count as full amateur internationals, and the SFA footed the bill for the trip.
Uhuru is the Swahili word for 'freedom' or 'independence', so it is a duplication to call it the Uhuru Independence Cup.
A draw in the final match would have won the trophy for Scotland, as Kenya had only drawn with Uganda.
The Scottish Football Museum has a printed itinerary for the tour, which may give further information.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by Rob R » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:02 pm

Yea ,the date was the 15th . Uganda played Tanganika on the 14th.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:50 pm

On this theme, does anyone have details of these amateur internationals = GERMANY vs. SCOTLAND 21/5/1956, SWITZERLAND vs. SCOTLAND 26/5/1956 & NETHERLANDS 2, SCOTLAND 2 30/5/1956 @ Den Haag? It wasn`t for any competiton as far as I know but a nice wee summer tour for boys in black & white plus some pals.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by sureitsza » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:13 pm


jeroen
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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by jeroen » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Netherlands (amateur)- Scotland (amateur)

A more detailed matchreport:

http://leiden.courant.nu/index.php?page ... score+desc

The trainer Gibson was Willie Gibson mentioned a few topics earlier

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by ScottishFA » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:39 pm

These are the teams, using detail from George Campbell's book:
All QP unless except for Taylor (Hounslow Town) and Chalmers (Dunfermline Athletic).

21 May 1956 at Olympic Stadium, Munich
West Germany Amateurs 4, Scotland Amateurs 1
F Crampsey, IG Harnett, G Taylor, RL Cromar, JC Valentine, JS Chalmers, NC Hopper, WL Black, JH Devine, D McLean, W Omand.

23 May 1956 at Stadion Allmend, Luzern
Switzerland 'B' 2, Scotland Amateurs 1
F Crampsey, IG Harnett, G Savage, RL Cromar, G Taylor, A Glen, JM Reid, WL Black, JH Devine, J Chalmers, W Omand. He also lists D McLean as a substitute, without stating for whom.

30 May 1956 at Houtrust Stadium, Den Haag
Netherlands Amateurs 2, Scotland Amateurs 2
F Crampsey, IG Harnett, G Savage, RL Cromar, JC Valentine, G Taylor, NC Hopper, JS Chalmers, JH Devine, A Glen, W Omand.

Unfortunately he doesn't give the scorers, although from Jeroen's link the scorers in the final match were Devine and Omand.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by Gordon Baird » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:20 pm

ScottishFA, sorry for going off-topic, but would you be kind enough to give me the details from George Campbell's book regarding Jim Chalmers other amateur international appearances as a Dunfermline player (1953-1957) :
v England, April 1955 and March 1956
v N. Ireland, 25 February 1956
v Wales, 10 March 1956
and any others I've missed.
Many thanks.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by ScottishFA » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Those are the only caps Jim Chalmers won while at Dunfermline, but before that he also made one appearance away to Republic of Ireland on 24 May 1952, when he was described as 'RAF and Oldham Athletic', being on national service at the time; so eight caps in total. According to one programme, he was a maintenance engineer at Aberdeen University.

NB, only two other Dunfermline players were capped by Scotland at amateur level, as far as I can see: Alex Edwards (v England 1963) and Robert Duncan (v Ireland and Wales in 1961).

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Thank you for all your help. We`re in the process of moving(we`re in temporary accommodation & have been for 4 months and will be for another 3 until our new home is ready) & there are a goodly number of cardboard boxes in storage one of which, somewhere, has George Campbell`s book but I seem to recall finding several amateur internationals NOT in his book. Can anyone provide any games he`s not included? Thanks in anticipation.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by ScottishFA » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:28 pm

I've done a quick cross-check against George's book, and it does seem to be a complete list of 'full' amateur internationals. Against that, he has a few typos and missing dates, and no details of scorers.

The only one which is missing is the rather strange game on 9 October 1932 against Denmark, when the Scottish Amateur FA selected a team to go to Copenhagen, where they lost 3-1 (at that time the SFA selected the Scotland teams). The Danish FA considers this a full A international!

see: http://www.dbu.dk/landshold/Landsholdsd ... tchid=1311

I published a full list of Amateur internationals in my Scotland Programme Guide a few years ago, with dates venues and scores (but not teams or scorers). I'll happily supply that to anyone interested, just PM me with your email.

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Re: Scotland Amateurs in Kenya

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:50 pm

Thanks ScottishFA. Yes, I rediscovered that game vs.Denmark a while ago & even found most of the Scottish side; it wasn`t along the usual Queen`s Park plus 1 either but I`m damned in I can find it now. Can you help?

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