Ian Black's Call-up...

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
HibeeJibee
Posts: 772
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:36 pm
Contact:

Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by HibeeJibee » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:58 pm

Ian Black of SFL3's The Rangers FC has been called-up for Wednesday's friendly v Australia.

Has Scotland ever called-up someone from a 4th tier before?

If so did they play?

LEATHERSTOCKING
Posts: 1625
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:34 pm

What??????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 pm

Jesus!!! It was only a few days ago that Levein specifically singled out Black as a player was on the cusp of selection but had ruined it by moving to the 3rd division. Rangers played eight internationalists yesterday (seven starts plus Kyle as sub).

Rio here we come.

Oh aye and sneak it out on the last day of the Olympics just like the deal for their SFA membership and to allow them to buy players up to the end of August came out minutes after the start of the opening ceremony. Good day to bury bad news.

Alan McCabe
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Falkirk
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Alan McCabe » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:54 am

I knew Levein would select Sevco Third Division players. It was never in doubt!

Like many, I genuinely believed Levein would be that bright spark, that new forward-thinking leader we all hoped would change things for the better. Alas, I think we may end up viewing such luminaries as Vogts and Burley as having not been that bad after all.

With EIGHT non-Scots in his original squad for the Australia match, Levein is demonstrating exactly where his allegiancies lie. As I have said before, we ain't good enough any more regardless and in that respect I'd rather lose gallantly with eleven true Scottish triers than fail meekly with 'pretend Jocks' who have as much in common with our country than I have with Burkino Faso!

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:15 am

Whilst agreeing that it's ridiculous that a 27-year-old who has spent the bulk of his career in the SPL and has never previously played below 1st division level should be called up while in the 3rd, I can't accept the rest of your argment. Every other country in the world plays by the existing rules and I don't see why Scotland should be any different. In Europe, Spain, Germany, Italy, England, France, Holland all do it let alone the lesser lights. In the ROI it isn't even a matter for debate, having been settled over a quarter of a century ago. And what anyway, is a 'true Scot?' That's an enormous can of worms opened there.

Gorgiewave
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:08 pm
Location: Madrid
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Gorgiewave » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:30 am

scottish wrote:Whilst agreeing that it's ridiculous that a 27-year-old who has spent the bulk of his career in the SPL and has never previously played below 1st division level should be called up while in the 3rd, I can't accept the rest of your argment. Every other country in the world plays by the existing rules and I don't see why Scotland should be any different. In Europe, Spain, Germany, Italy, England, France, Holland all do it let alone the lesser lights. In the ROI it isn't even a matter for debate, having been settled over a quarter of a century ago. And what anyway, is a 'true Scot?' That's an enormous can of worms opened there.
While I would like both to strangle Ian Black and to welcome him back to our spineless defence, I don't see there being a necessary problem in a third division player playing for Scotland. Why not? If he's good enough, he's in a high enough league. The only doubt might be whether he's not used to playing against the best players, but he's been an SPL player for a while and he's not suddenly going to forget everything.

Or is it embarrassing? If so, if we pulled out our programme and discovered Brad O'Flannagan of third division Woomera Wallopers was in the Australia squad, would we laugh at Australia? Don't think so. We'd scan over and it would barely register.
"He took about half an hour to do it, but he did it!"

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:34 pm

If only it was about Brad O'Flanagan of Woomera Wallopers. It isn't. It's about Branislav Ivanovic of Chelsea, Nemanja Vidic of Man Utd, Aleksandr Kolarov of Man City, Neven Subotic of Borussia Dortmund, Aleksandr Lukovic of Zenit St Petersburg, Ivan Obrodovic of Real Zaragoza, Radosav Petrovic of Blackburn Rovers, Bosko Jankovic of Genoa, Gojo Kacar of Hamburg, Milos Krasic of Fenerbache, Dejan Stankovic of Inter Milan, Zdravko Kuzmanovic of Stuttgart, Zoran Tosic of CSKA Moscow, Milos Ninkovic of Dinamo Kiev, Milan Jovanovic of Anderlecht plus others from top leagues. And that's just Serbia, our first opponents in the World Cup.

Think of the opposition these guys are facing week in week out then think of Peterhead, East Stirling, Montrose, Berwick, Elgin, Queen's Park, Clyde, Stirling Albion and Annan Athletic - the teams Rangers will be facing regularly in league competition this season. Then think if a player considered not good enough for Scotland after nearly a decade in the top flight should be even considered for international recognition in the 3rd division?

Alan McCabe
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Falkirk
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Alan McCabe » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:57 pm

Whilst many will think my viewpoint to be wrong as regards the eligibility of some of our chosen squad, I am happy with my stance. I couldn't honestly care a hoot what all those other nations do. I'm not of the opinion that we should blindly follow because that's what the majority do.
Call me old-fashioned or, even, xenophobic, but that's my viewpoint. I have no problem with the parental rule, after all that gave us many fine internationalists throughout the years. As for this grandparent ruling...I'm sorry, it's just an excuse for weak managers to select and second-rate players with no love of Scotland to receive international recognition.
And that, to me, is the crux of the matter. If you don't have an intrinsic love for the nation you intend to represent then you shouldn't be there.
I'm away to get my flak jacket...

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:27 pm

Alan McCabe wrote: And that, to me, is the crux of the matter. If you don't have an intrinsic love for the nation you intend to represent then you shouldn't be there.
Is there such a thing as an 'intrinsic' love? The days of crawling over broken glass to gain an international cap are gone and not coming back. By your argument neither Lukas Podolski nor Miroslav Klose would have been eligible for Germany yet both have played over 100 times internationally. To me that shows more determination and dedication than many born and bred Scots who cry off with 'injuries' that miraculously heal before the next league game.

It's also arguable that the present Spanish run of success was kicked off by the presence in their team of the Brazilian-born Marcos Senna in the 2008 euros.

And it's not what the MAJORITY do, it's what EVERYBODY does. I cannot see how Scotland can swim against the tide. How reducing an already meagre talent pool can possibly help us.

Finally, do we apply your argument to all of sport or just football? If the latter then it makes no sense whatsoever. If the former then it would have deprived us of the glorious sight of Mo Farah winning double Olympic gold inside a week.

LEATHERSTOCKING
Posts: 1625
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:59 pm

I`m with you Alan - all the way. Etiam si omnes - ego non - "Even if all others do - not me".

the hibLOG
Posts: 1198
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:41 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by the hibLOG » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:42 pm

Gorgiewave wrote:While I would like both to strangle Ian Black ...
I'll join you in that :)
Fraser

Alan McCabe
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Falkirk
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Alan McCabe » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:30 am

Leaving aside the issue of real and not so real Scots, I actually like Black's tenacity on the park. I thought he had a very decent campaign last season and could be the type of combative midfielder we could be doing with.
That said, it's another ridiculous episode in the "join the Old Firm and you'll be capped" scenario. We have a manager who continually goes back on his claimed beliefs with Old Firm and English-based squad players picked despite not playing regularly and, now, fourth-tier players being called up only days after claiming another could not realistically be selected whilst playing at as lowly a level.
Levein has been a let down for me after such promising words upon his appointment. I think he is too young a manager for the job and has attempted to manage the national side like a club manager in that, where you cannot obviously sign players for international duty, he has trawled the lower levels in England to effectively try and coax players into 'becoming Scottish'.
Oops...there I go meandering into dangerous territory again...

bobby s
Posts: 816
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:15 am
Location: Nittingrange
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by bobby s » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:49 am

He managed to get sent off on his Scotland B debut as a sub v Turkey. I have real reservations that his "style" of play would not be so humoured by non-scottish refs but as said above - he's not good enough in the SPL and now he is in Div 3. He's not a patch on Lee Wallace either.
It's the Hope I can't stand

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:08 am

I go along with Bobby. Black will be lucky to last 90 minutes in a fully competitive international match. As for trawling lower divisions if it brings us a Podolski or a Klose let alone a football equivalent of Mo Farah, I'm not going to turn my nose up at that. My gripe with Levein is regarding his ability (or lack of) to do the job. He is far too intransigent - see Steven Fletcher. He insists he can see progress when the signs aren't obvious to anyone else. Worse than that, at least I never thought he was a coward. Until yesterday when he left it to Peter Houston to try to explain his somersault re Black.

One thing I don't think can be held against him is age. He will be 48 in two months time. At that age Alex Ferguson had smashed the Old Firm duopoly, taken charge of a World Cup campaign and survived a torrid time in England to claim his first major trophy there. Jock Stein had won the European Cup, taken Celtic to a second final and lifted five of his eventual nine successive titles. Jim McLean had won the league, two League Cups and transformed Dundee United into one of the most feared teams in Europe. Matt Busby had three English league titles and an FA Cup under his belt. Kenny Dalglish had won the league with two different clubs. Even Alex McLeish's Scotland beat France away when he was 48. The only significant Scottish managers in the post-war era whose greatest triumphs came later than that age were the Shankly brothers. And, believe me, Levein is no Shankly.

If you want further evidence look at Brian Clough, Don Revie, George Graham, Jose Mourinho & Pep Guardiola. Alf Ramsey was 46 when he did you know what. Roberto Mancini is a month younger than Levein and has four titles from two different countries. Levein has been in management close to 15 years. He is no novice.

bobby s
Posts: 816
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:15 am
Location: Nittingrange
Contact:

Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by bobby s » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:18 am

scottish wrote:My gripe with Levein is regarding his ability (or lack of) to do the job. He is far too intransigent - see Steven Fletcher. He insists he can see progress when the signs aren't obvious to anyone else. Worse than that, at least I never thought he was a coward. Until yesterday when he left it to Peter Houston to try to explain his somersault re Black.
For some bizarre reason, Levein is a media darling. He's one of those managers that always gets an easy ride in the press, and his managerial career is nothing special. He's not scrutinised and for me he's not nearly as talented as Burley, but George was vilified. As I get older, I'm more and more against changing managers but he's a bad appointment, and we won't progress and he's hopelessly out of his depth as evidenced by the decision to select Ian Black.

In fact, would you be surprised if Black won a few Scotland caps and then moved on from The Rangers in the next transfer window or two for big bucks benefitting the Rangers? They could do with the working capital. I still don't get how he overlooked Wallace, if he was going to select Black though.
It's the Hope I can't stand

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest