Ian Black's Call-up...

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Alan McCabe
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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Alan McCabe » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:34 pm

You misunderstand my view with regard to Levein's age, David.

I wasn't saying he lacked experience as a manager and your comparisons with others, mainly much better managers, is valid.

The point I was endeavouring to make was that I think he is too young for international management. I think he should still be somewhere in the day-to-day world of club management. I thought the same when McLeish got the job.

The poisoned challice that appears to be international management is much more suited to the 'old pros' who have done the rounds a bit. With the best will in the world, Levein's managerial career to date does not tick that particular box.

On the subject of his regular ascertions that we are making good progress, I am as bamboozled as many on here. We have only beaten Leichtenstein (twice) and Lithuania by single goals in Levein's eight competitive internationals to date. And the good old Rangers liquidation news handily masked the embarassment of a 5-1 hiding in America.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:54 am

I maybe just used the wrong analogies for Levein. Perhaps in more recent times international management has been seen as the culmination of a career, that's more a reflection that the salaries on offer are dwarved by those for club management (for the top clubs anyway). There is little chance of any top club manager being tempted away (though I'd love to see the SFA make a determined bid for Paul Lambert when there is next a vacancy).

However many of the best interntional managers have been Levein's age or younger and not necessarily with club experience either. These all won the World Cup:

Alberto Suppici 31
Vittorio Pozzo 48 (1st win)
Juan López Fontana 42
Alf Ramsey 46
Mario Zagallo 38
César Luis Menotti 39
Carlos Bilardo 47
Franz Beckenbauer 44

And even as far as Scotland managers are concerned, Levein was somewhere in the middle at the time of his appointment:

Craig Levein 45
Andy Beattie 40 (1st time)
Andy Beattie 45 (2nd time)
Bobby Brown 43
Craig Brown 53
George Burley 51
Tommy Burns 47 (temp)
Matt Busby 48
Tommy Docherty 43
Alex Ferguson 43 (temp)
Ian McColl 33
Malky McDonald 52 (temp)
Alec McLeish 48
Ally McLeod 46
Willie Ormond 45
John Prentice 39
Andy Roxburgh 42
Walter Smith 56
Jock Stein 42 (temp)
Jock Stein 55 (day before 56th birthday)
Berti Vogts 55
Dawson Walker 42 (temp)

Several of those had been and gone before their 48th birthday, which Levein is fast approaching. I don't think he's too young for international management. I think he isn't good enough for it. I'd be delighted for the forthcoming World Cup campaign to prove me wrong.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:58 am

And having looked at the oldest manager at time of appointment Smith's exact age in years and days I have realised that the SFA have just over four months to approach me if Walter is to keep his record intact!

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Scottish » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:43 am

I suppose the late entrance of Black was a deliberate GIRFUY to critics, done from a position of strength with the game won. Do we now bow down to the tactical genius who has seen us score in the past nine games - incuding five away - despite widespread criticism of his formation? Do we think that the only countries to have beaten us at home in the past six years have been the footballing royalty of Argentina, Italy, Holland and Spain, and therefore look forward to the World Cup with confidence. In short does one win make us re-evaluate Levein as an international manager?

IMHO, no. As has been pointed out, in matches where it counts, Liechtenstein twice and Lithuania once remains the only wins and none of those were by more than a goal. The World Cup qualifiers will be the judge of Craig Levein, for good or for ill.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Alan McCabe » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:22 am

From the shambles in Jacksonville to a pre-season win over a diminishing Australian side, we now have the experts gushing about us having strength in depth all over the park!

And as for Billy Dodds, does he really have to begin every sentence with "And i'll tell you wot...". Andy Gray began this habit, quickly followed by Ally McCoist and now Dodds. We get the idea that you're going to say something guys...can we cut out the Americanized lingo please?

Like Steven Thompson said, we need maximum points from Serbia and Macedonia in the opening two games as this group looks like being settled by strong home form plus the odd point nicked on travels.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Ne24 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:34 pm

A sad reflection of the talent pool in Scottish Football. Until Scottish clubs plays Scottish players rather than sign players from lower European Leagues or lower English Divisions the likes of Black will be selected. Every club in the SPL is guilty to some extent, Hibs taking the biscuit with the signing of Shefi Kuqi at the age of 35. Have Hibs realy not got a promising youngster who could fil the Kuqi role, sadly they won't take the risk because of being hamstrung in a 10 team league.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by bobby s » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:59 pm

Alan McCabe wrote:From the shambles in Jacksonville to a pre-season win over a diminishing Australian side, we now have the experts gushing about us having strength in depth all over the park!.
Like I said, he gets an incredibly easy ride from the press unjustifiably easy.
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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by bobby s » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:12 pm

Ne24 wrote:A sad reflection of the talent pool in Scottish Football. Until Scottish clubs plays Scottish players rather than sign players from lower European Leagues or lower English Divisions the likes of Black will be selected. Every club in the SPL is guilty to some extent, Hibs taking the biscuit with the signing of Shefi Kuqi at the age of 35. Have Hibs realy not got a promising youngster who could fil the Kuqi role, sadly they won't take the risk because of being hamstrung in a 10 team league.
Hibs take the biscuit? Deary me. We sign a 35 year old Finnish international target man with 60+ caps to complement our Existing forwards - of a couple of 18 year olds, a 21 year old loan signing and a 24 year old fresh out of the Irish League. That's *exactly* the kind of signing that SPL sides should be making to complement their existing and primarily Scottish resources.
It's the Hope I can't stand

Ne24
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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by Ne24 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:21 pm

bobby s wrote:
Ne24 wrote:A sad reflection of the talent pool in Scottish Football. Until Scottish clubs plays Scottish players rather than sign players from lower European Leagues or lower English Divisions the likes of Black will be selected. Every club in the SPL is guilty to some extent, Hibs taking the biscuit with the signing of Shefi Kuqi at the age of 35. Have Hibs realy not got a promising youngster who could fil the Kuqi role, sadly they won't take the risk because of being hamstrung in a 10 team league.
Hibs take the biscuit? Deary me. We sign a 35 year old Finnish international target man with 60+ caps to complement our Existing forwards - of a couple of 18 year olds, a 21 year old loan signing and a 24 year old fresh out of the Irish League. That's *exactly* the kind of signing that SPL sides should be making to complement their existing and primarily Scottish resources.
His signing demonstrates the safety first option for teams in a league to small in numbers which stifles development and discourages risk taking.

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Re: Ian Black's Call-up...

Post by the hibLOG » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:46 pm

Ne24 wrote:His signing demonstrates the safety first option for teams in a league to small in numbers which stifles development and discourages risk taking.
Stop it, you're showing how little you know about the Hibs squad, and I wouldn't giove you a job as a coach either. It was only Garry O'Connor and Leigh Griffiths's goals that kept Hibs up last year, and the latter undoubtedly benefitted from the former's experience and physical presence. With O'Connor gone Hibs desperately needed an experienced target man to complement the younger, lighter and nippier forwards that were left. As Bobby pointed out, Hibs now have one 35 year old 60-cap forward and a clutch of youngsters up front. History will show you the benefits of that kind of combination. Or are you saying the SPL should be like some sort of footballing Logan's Run, where everyone over 30 gets vapourised?
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