James Cameron

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J.S.Norway
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James Cameron

Post by J.S.Norway » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:56 pm

I am looking for information about James Cameron, who I belive played for Linthouse, Rangers (1893/94), Liverpool (1894/95) and Linthouse again.
Birth, death, other clubs etc.


J.S.Norway
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Re: James Cameron

Post by J.S.Norway » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:29 pm

I just don`t trust that.

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Re: James Cameron

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:48 pm

Why don't you trust the Liverpool information? The same details appear on ENFA, which adds a year of death as 1934 and says despite a first name of James he was known by the highly imaginative nickname of Jock. The Litster pre-war disk has him signing for Rangers from Linthouse in July 1893 and making no first class first team appearances before moving to Liverpool. According to this he returned to Linthouse in October 1895 and made four appearances, scoring once that season and one appearance the next before leaving in February 1897. The only difference in career details is that Litster says he played as a centre-forward in 1895-96 before reverting to right-back.

There are two potential conflicts. There was an outside-left called J Cameron who played for Renton in 1890-91 who is not mentioned as having played for any other club. There is a J Cameron who played for Liverpool in 1892-93 who made two FA Cup appearances, scoring once, and turned out seven times in the Lancashire Combination, scoring four times. There are no ENFA details on this player as the site only covers league clubs.

I should also say that 'Rangers - The Complete Record' by Bob Ferrier & Robert McElroy has him playing in two friendlies in 1893-94, away to Abercorn 1/8/93 & away to Third Lanark 16/9/93. as right-back in the first game and right-half in the second.

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Re: James Cameron

Post by J.S.Norway » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:19 pm

I belive you are correct about Linthouse, Rangers, Liverpool and Linthouse information. But I am not sure about the rest.
I think it was maybe Tony Matthews who had the other information first in a who`s who book about LFC. I have seen a lot of errors in that book.

bluedragon
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Re: James Cameron

Post by bluedragon » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:20 pm

scottish wrote:Why don't you trust the Liverpool information? The same details appear on ENFA, which adds a year of death as 1934 and says despite a first name of James he was known by the highly imaginative nickname of Jock. The Litster pre-war disk has him signing for Rangers from Linthouse in July 1893 and making no first class first team appearances before moving to Liverpool. According to this he returned to Linthouse in October 1895 and made four appearances, scoring once that season and one appearance the next before leaving in February 1897. The only difference in career details is that Litster says he played as a centre-forward in 1895-96 before reverting to right-back.

There are two potential conflicts. There was an outside-left called J Cameron who played for Renton in 1890-91 who is not mentioned as having played for any other club. There is a J Cameron who played for Liverpool in 1892-93 who made two FA Cup appearances, scoring once, and turned out seven times in the Lancashire Combination, scoring four times. There are no ENFA details on this player as the site only covers league clubs.

I should also say that 'Rangers - The Complete Record' by Bob Ferrier & Robert McElroy has him playing in two friendlies in 1893-94, away to Abercorn 1/8/93 & away to Third Lanark 16/9/93. as right-back in the first game and right-half in the second.

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Re: James Cameron

Post by bluedragon » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:28 pm

Sorry! Don't know what happened there! I'll try again!

I think the "J Cameron who played for Liverpool in 1892-93 who made two FA Cup appearances, scoring once, and turned out seven times in the Lancashire Combination, scoring four times" is a "John" rather than a "James"

Kjell's Liverpool press coverage has a report from Field Sports on 9th May 1892 that says:

The Liverpool Association Football Club are straining every nerve to secure a really first class team in view of next season. ...........on Saturday a deputation proceeded to Scotland and signed on two more players – Jno.Cameron, outside left forward, and James Kelso, right half back. Both are young, strapping players, and both will fully sustain the reputation of the ground to which in the future they will be attached. Kelso is the younger brother of Bob of that ilk so well-known to all Evertonians."

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Re: James Cameron

Post by sureitsza » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:55 pm

J.S.Norway wrote:I just don`t trust that.
Sorry, I thought I was just trying to help you.
.
For what is worth, I don't believe the bit about his time at Glasgow Perthshire. They where not formed until Nov 1890 and did not kick a ball until Sept 1891

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Re: James Cameron

Post by Scottish » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:46 pm

bluedragon wrote:I think the "J Cameron who played for Liverpool in 1892-93 who made two FA Cup appearances, scoring once, and turned out seven times in the Lancashire Combination, scoring four times" is a "John" rather than a "James"
Certainly available Liverpool sources plus ENFA suggest these are two separate players. Thoughthere was also a John Cameron who played for Stoke City in 1891-92. And to confuse matters more there was yet another John Cameron who played for Everton 1895-98. He was one of the most interesting characters of his day and I append his entry from my book 'GAFFERS' below.

CAMERON, John 1872-1935
Ayr United Aug 17th 1918-May 10th 1919
Honours: None


Cameron had been a talented amateur as a player with Ayr Parkhouse and Queen’s Park and had been capped by Scotland. Turning pro with Everton he was also secretary of the Players Union before becoming secretary, player AND manager of Tottenham Hotspur in which capacity he won the FA Cup in 1901 while that side was still in the Southern League.

Cameron was one of the pioneers of the game on the continent, taking up a position as coach to Dresden FC in 1912 and, as he was still there when war broke out in 1914, he was interned for almost the entire duration of the conflict before being released under a prisoner exchange in the summer of 1918.
His impact on Ayr United was immediate as he took over a team which had finished last in the eighteen-club Scottish League and, through some shrewd signings in a market complicated by the return of men from the forces throughout the season, took them up to sixth place a position bettered previously just twice in their history and not equalled again until 1973.

Unfortunately, almost four years in wartime confinement had taken their toll on Cameron and he felt unable to continue with Ayr, returning to his former profession of journalism.

jeroen
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Re: James Cameron

Post by jeroen » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:37 am

Before Dresden, Cameron trained Dutch club Haarlem (signed in December 1911)

J.S.Norway
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Re: James Cameron

Post by J.S.Norway » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:42 am

Thank you to everybody who have tried to help me. Yes I know that Liverpool had 2 Camerons in early days. I am only looking at James now. I know he came to Liverpool in May 1894 and stayed only 1 season.
In the late 1980s Douglas Lamming wrote a who`s who about LFC. Tony Matthews did the same c10 years ago. I have done a lot of research in the latest 20 years and just know that there are several errors in the 2 books. And sadly the errors have been copied by others. So I have learned that all information need to be checked and confirmed. Very interesting to hear that Glasgow Perthshire wasn`t formed before 1890/91!! I also belive Liverpool FC have a system error. It`s look like they get born 1st January to often. Are there any information about the Pollokshields club?

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Re: James Cameron

Post by kjell » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:41 pm

A shot in the dark.

There is a J. Cameron (Our Boys) selected to represent Forfarshire in their annual match v. Perthshire on May 20, 1893. This is reported in Dundee Courier, April 27, 1893. His position is centre half in the selection presentation. Our Boys later re-named to Dundee F.C. i believe, not sure though.

Maybe a Dundee fan here who can bring more light on him?

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Re: James Cameron

Post by Gunboat Briggs » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:48 am

Kjell wrote:Our Boys later re-named to Dundee F.C. i believe, not sure though.
Not quite, Our Boys merged with East End to form Dundee FC in 1893.

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