Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:16 am

Here's my story of Robert Main Christie, which is published in the Scotsman today: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/more-sport/other/robert-main-christie-dunblane-s-original-sporting-hero-1-3385615

Surely the only SFA President to be killed in action!

It was only while researching this that I realised how insidious mustard gas was - invisible and with no smell, it took several hours to take effect and could permeate clothing so gasmasks were no use. By the time the victims started to notice they had been gassed, it was too late and there was no escape from an agonising death.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:40 pm

gogsy1968 wrote:Edinburgh evening News 26th June 1915 has the following

Lance-Cpl Alexander Crichton of the 7th Black Watch (territorials)who has been killed in action, played for Raith Rovers


No mention of an Alexander Crichton playing for Raith Rovers in John Litster's RR book or on his pre-war disk or in Steve Emms book so will not be including him. Thanks for the info Gordon.

Alan
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:46 pm

ScottishFA wrote:Here's my story of Robert Main Christie, which is published in the Scotsman today: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/more-sport/other/robert-main-christie-dunblane-s-original-sporting-hero-1-3385615


Enjoyed reading the Scotsman article Andy. Hope someone at the SFA reads the article and makes plans to give Christie a decent remembrance.

Alan
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:41 am

Alan Brown wrote:
gogsy1968 wrote:Edinburgh evening News 26th June 1915 has the following

Lance-Cpl Alexander Crichton of the 7th Black Watch (territorials)who has been killed in action, played for Raith Rovers


No mention of an Alexander Crichton playing for Raith Rovers in John Litster's RR book or on his pre-war disk or in Steve Emms book so will not be including him. Thanks for the info Gordon.

Alan


He was a Raith player, just not in the first team - and his death seems to have been missed by the club. The 1948 club history says: "A number of Raith's players had joined the Sportsmen's Battalion of the Royal Scots during the season, while others joined local Territorial units. Those who enlisted were George McLay, James Scott, James Todd, William Lavery, William Porter, James H Logan, James M Gourlay, William Wallace, Fred Martin, James Gibson, John Melville, George Stoddart, Peter Lumsden, William Collier, Alex Reekie, Alex Crichton; and of these George McLay, James Todd, James Scott, John Melville and James Gibson made the supreme sacrifice."
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:28 pm

There were 2 other players with a Raith Rovers connection that were killed in action: Thomas Cranston and David Carswell Philip.
Although Cranston's last club was Clyde he played more games for Raith Rovers.

Alan
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby A_Beattie » Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 pm

scottish wrote:Quite a lot of detail on Kilmarnock players and those with Killie connections from Richard Cairns which adds more information to the list published in the club history in 1919.
James Morton Maxwell

b. 26th July 1887, Kilmarnock, Died 21st April 1917 in Mespotania. 1st Seaforth Highlanders. His name is listed on the Basra Memorial, which was moved in 1997 to the Nasiriyah road, ironically the scene of a major battle in the 1991 Gulf War.


James Morton Maxwell actually left two sons but, aye, one became the footballer referred to.

Maxwell is in the photograph of the Sheffield Wednesday F.A. Cup winning team although, of course, he did not feature in that match. There are a couple of snaps of him taken at this time. He also appears (in error) on the John Player's cigarette card of F.A. Cup Winning teams issued in the 1930's. The player who's image should have been printed was Bartlett. As issued the card bears Maxwell's image and Bartlett's name. :0)
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby A_Beattie » Thu May 29, 2014 9:31 am

James Morton Maxwell is also listed on the Dundonald War Memorial (on the rear) L/Cpl. James Maxwell, Seaforth Highlanders. So that's three memorials bearing his name - Basra, Kilmarnock, Dundonald.

When Kilmarnock War Memorial was being opened on Saturday, 21st. May, 1927 a certain 14 year old Maxwell laddie was winning his second Scottish schoolboy international cap in Belfast. :0)
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Scottish » Thu May 29, 2014 10:26 am

A_Beattie wrote:James Morton Maxwell is also listed on the Dundonald War Memorial (on the rear) L/Cpl. James Maxwell, Seaforth Highlanders.


I never knew that. I have a Great-Uncle on that memorial.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby A_Beattie » Thu May 29, 2014 6:54 pm

scottish wrote:
A_Beattie wrote:James Morton Maxwell is also listed on the Dundonald War Memorial (on the rear) L/Cpl. James Maxwell, Seaforth Highlanders.


I never knew that. I have a Great-Uncle on that memorial.
Yes I thought you'd be pleased about that. I only found out for certain on Tuesday there when I bought a copy of his Informal Will (Scotland's People) which listed the wife's address as Main Street, Dundonald. Her brother lived there and I expect she went there with the kids while JMM was in France. Will is dated June, 1915. I knew the name was there on the memorial when I lived in Dundonald and always wondered ... Also means Bud was somewhere in Main Street, Dundonald as a toddler kicking a ball about and most likely his elder brother attended the primary school.

By 1919, of course, they are back in Killie as the wifey remarried.

Earlier in the thread someone remarked the number of footballers associated with the Seaforth's in The Great War. Likely has a lot to do with the regimental recruitment poster of which there is an example at Wikipedia - troops/kilties in various uniforms smiling and watching as their team runs out onto a park. Great poster. :0)
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Scottish » Fri May 30, 2014 12:30 am

Seeing as he was born in 1887 and the primary school was built in 1897 there's a good chance I've kicked a ball about on the same spot!
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby stuthejag » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:24 pm

EEN 3rd Nov 1915, Reports that Ayr United player John Bellinger is KIA.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby kjell » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:43 am

Hello,

Evening Telegraph listed in their paper for Friday, April 9 - 1915 a list of 111 Scottish League players that had joined the colours.

For those with a subscription to BNA it is on page 4, 3rd column.

Text:
FOOTBALLERS AND THE WAR. Scottish League Players Who Have Joined the Colours. The Scottish Football League have compiled official list of the players in their clubs who have joined the colours, and also a list of those players who are employed on Government work. Of those who have joined the Army many are now at the front, and the others are in training at various centres. It should be understood that only actual League players are included in the lists, no mention being made of the hundreds of nonplaying members who have joined the Foroes. We give the list of players on service. The number detained on Government work 111.

Aberdeen F.C. —John M'Kay, M. E. Hutton, Robert Hannah Albert V. Calvert, James M'Donald, Alex. Wright, Walter Grant, John Munro, Wm. W. Green, Alex. S. Barclay, Edward Keith, James Muir, Alex. Wiseman, Charles Nelson.

Airdriecnians F.C —D. Templeman.

Ayr United F.C. —John Crosbie, John Bellringer, Neil M'Bain, John Hood, Arthur Dale.

Clyde F.C.—William M'Andrew, Charles Clunas, James S. Grant, Ebenezer Owers, Matthew Barr, Thomas Taggart, David Coid, Patrick Allan.

Dumbarton F.C. —John Allan, M.D.; James Blyth, Alexander Clarkston, John G. Rowan, Findlay Speedie.

Dundee F.C. —Daniel Cameron, Robert Crumley, James Hamilton, Robert Hussan, James Melville, John Peters,

Clyde D. Skene, William Milne.

Falkirk F.C.—Andrew Henderson, Alex., Henderson, Robert Wood, Robert Godfrey, John Morrison, Henry Taylor, Thomas Hope, James Sharp, John Mitchell.

Heart of Midlothian F.C. —Norman Findlay. Patrick Crossan, Duncan Currie, Alfred Briggs, James Low Henry Wattie. Thomas Gracie, William Wilson, James Frew, Ernest Ellis, Robert Preston, Annan Ness, James Boyd, George Sinclair, James F. Speedie, Neil Moreland.

Hibernian F.C.—Robert Reid, A. R. Grosert.

Kilmarnock F.C.—W. P. Brown, William Dickie, James Morton, J. Rollo, David Summon.

Morton F.C.—John C. Fulton, Thomas Hempseed, Joseph M'Kenzie, James Cullen.

Partick Thistle F.C. —James Hynd, Alex. Logan.

The Queen's Park Football Club, Ltd.— James Anderson, Colin L. Buchan, W. M. Coulter, Macdonald Cameron, David Cameron, Alex. Douglas, Neil Donaldson, John Donaldson, E. S. Garvie, Thomas Haydock, John Kerr, George G. Lean, Hector M'Kenzie, A. B. M'Crae, John M'Keohnie, R. C. M'Bean, H. M'D. Paul, John Roberts, Robert Rhind, J. Vaughan Russell, Harry Robertson, M. O. Wilson, James Walker, .Tames L. West, Thomas Walker, jun., R. M. xoung.

Raith Rovers F.C. —James Logan, William Lavory, James Scott, George M'Lay, James Todd, William Porter, James W. M. Gourlav.

Rangers F.C.—Dr Thomas Gilchrist, George Dickson. St F.C.—James R. Armstrong, John Clark, Robert Cunningham, George Elmore, Fred F. Gray, John Liddell, John Lindsay, W. S. MacLeod, Hugh Stevenson.

Third Lanark F.C. —J. Ferguson, J. B. Galloway, R. Riley, John Oliphant.

Abercorn F.C. —William Campbell, John M'Lellan, Hugh M'Lellan, Patrick Diamond, •Tohn Mills, Arch. Robertson, Donald S. Kennedy, John Little, William Jamieson, William Greer, John Montgomery, Walter Adam son. Albion Rovers F.C. —William Harrie, James Dickson.

Artburlie F.C. —James M'Nedll, Francis M'Guire, Douglas M'Naufrhton.

Clydebank F.C. —John Fraser.

Cowdenbeath F.C. —William Birrell, Patrick Neilson.

Dundee Hibernian F.C.—Thomas Andrew Crawford, Fred Stoessel, William Gavanagh, William Sutherland.

Dunfermline Athletic F.C. —David Hardie John M'Queen, John Baird, David Izatt.

Johnstone F.C.—R. C. Houston, John Buchanan, Joseph Meikle, Thomas Anderson Thomas Gray, A. M'Gillivray. Leith F.C. Arthur Donaldson, Harold Smith.

Lochgelly United F.C.—James Finerty, W Pratt, R. Patterson, A. Lindsay, D. Taylor C. Keelock. P. Ferguson, T. Evans, A Patti' son, A. Grant, J. Haldane, J. George Millar.

St Bernard FC.-James Davie, George Ross, James Hastie, Andrew Amos Prior, John French, William Wemvss

St Johnstone F.C.-Day id Pitt, James Craig ' y ° Wn ' W - Gardiner, David Vale of Lever, RC.-Peter William Gallacher, R. William Clark M'Gill. William Wylie John Wilson (deceased), Michael Gilhooly '

If any names are unclear I can go back and check the paper.

Kjell
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:16 pm

Thanks for posting this Kjell. It is the same list that was compiled by William McAndrew and appeared in the Scotsman around the same time. A reproduction is in my recent book. Londonhearts.com also has a copy of the pages that you mentioned. Getting back to Stuthejags mention of John Bellinger: As he made no first team appearances for Ayr United I decided not to include him in my Roll of Honour. There will be a whole host of players that are 'missing' from my book, such as Walter Tull who made no appearances in Scottish football but was a signed Rangers player.

If anyone is still after a copy of my book 'World War One and Scottish Football' there are still some copies left. I have no plans for a reprint though.

Alan
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:26 pm

Going off slightly at a tangent here, it would be good to know which clubs erected a memorial to their players after the war.

Obviously two prominent memorials are to Hearts at Haymarket Station, and Queen's Park at Hampden (it's at the entrance to the museum), but are there more?

I came across this posting about a memorial to junior club Perth Roselea, for example:

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic6891.html

Image
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby qpsnapper » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:06 am

I found a typed sheet when QP were moving from the portakabin buildings at Lesser to their new building last year titled "Members of Queen's Park Football Club killed on active service 1914-1918:

Capt. James Alexander, 16th HLI
Lieut. William Anderson, 10th Scottish Rifles
Sgt. George R. Baillie, R.F.A.
Pte. James Bryce, 9th Royal Scots
Pte. Andrew A. Caldwell, King's Liverpool Reg.
Lieut. Macdonald Cameron, 3/6th HLI
Major R.M. Christie, Labour Batallion
Sapper John Clarkson, 9th North Staffords
Captain Walter M. Coulter, HLI

Pt. James D. Dunnachie, 6th Cameron Highlanders
Cpl. R.A. Ferguson, London Scottish
2nd Lieut H.M. Fletcher, R.F.A
Pte. Edwin Freeland, Canadians

Pte. Walter W. Frier, H.L.I.
L.-Cpl Edwin S. Garvie, Cameron Highlanders
Pte. Ebenezer Hamilton, Cameron Highlanders
Lieut. Thomas Haydock, 7th Cameronians (S.R.)
Pte. George Legge, Cameron Highlanders

Major R.M. Mann, Scottish Rifles
Gunner John S. Monteath, R.G.A
Trooper Andrew B.M. Rae, Lovat Scouts
Pte. Alexander MacLean, 3rd Scottish Rifles
Pte. Joe Ormiston, Canadian Regiment

Asst Paymaster William Fisher Paton, R.N.
Flight Lieut. George S. Ramsay, R.A.F.
Pte. Harry Robertson, H.L.I.
Pte. John Stevenson, 3/9 H.L.I.
2nd Lieut. John Wilkinson Jun., A. & S.H.
2nd Lieut. James G. Wilson, Black Watch


The ones in bold are first team players.
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