Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:05 pm

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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby leicester » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:34 pm

Just a candidate, no more:

John Barr Fleming, b. 27.12.1889 Lochside, Slamannan (to Hamilton & Helen [Simpson] Fleming)
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:03 pm

Yes, that's him. Parents are Hamilton and Helen in the census returns.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Gordon Baird » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:35 pm

Four more to add:

James Chalmers - 1/4 Royal Scots Fusiliers, died Gallipoli, 12 July 1915. Played for Morton (1896/97), Sunderland, Preston NE, Notts County, Partick Thistle (1900/01), Spurs, Swindon & Norwich.

Alexander Phillips - Sapper, 446th Company, Royal Engineers, died 1 August 1917. Played for Norwood FC, Lochee United & Raith Rovers (1903 - 1905).

John A. Todd - Bombardier, Canadian Garrison Artillery, 3rd Brigade, died 14 June 1918. Played for Clyde (1910 - 1912), Hamilton Accies (1912/13), Airdrie (1913/14), Armadale & Nithsdale Wanderers.

Robert Wyllie - Sergeant, 4th/5th Battalion, Black Watch, killed in action 5 October 1918. Played for Stobswell & Forfar Athletic.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:29 am

Thanks for the updates guys. The list published in my book was never going to be a definitive list and I knew it would grow more as new research is uncovered. Perhaps by the end of 2018 it will have grown to 150!

Details of Thomas Clifford death at http://www.snwm.org/content/roll-search ... de4&page=1.

John Harkins: http://www.snwm.org/content/roll-search ... 41f&page=1

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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby soccerhistory » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:45 am

Thanks for the information provided. Just to clarify: the problem I am having is that in quite a few cases players have been traditionally recorded as having been killed in action (and have been remembered on Armistice Day each year in recent times) but when I go back to the original sources I cannot match an entry in the CWGC with a contemporary newspaper report. This is the case for the names I listed below. I note both Kerr and Clifford were Ayr United players and the local papers may well have provided the source. I can't trace any link between the death of Barney Crossan and military service, so I suspect this was due to general health conditions. To give an example (an English based player) - he has been reported on the club's list of war dead for some time but there was no obvious link on CWGC; I eventually found a report stating he had married in 1924 then in the late 1940s a report saying he was still alive despite being reported as having died in WW1. In fact he had been seriously injured and was recuperating in hospital for 18 months.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby ScottishFA » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:56 pm

Another one, who qualifies by dint of a single Div 2 appearance for Arthurlie in 1909/10. Found him as he was with Dunblane in 1908/09:

John Bell Gracie, born c1884, killed at Loos on 28 September 1915. A Private in the Cameron Highlanders.

He is perhaps more notable as the elder brother of Tom Gracie, the Hearts player, who died the following month.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:40 am

Great stuff Andy. I knew that Tom Gracie had a brother in the services but didn't realise he played with Arthurlie in division two. Thanks. Will compile an updated list when time allows!

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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby qpsnapper » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:35 pm

Found another former Queen's Park player, Major Lionel Cuthbert Thornton, a noted English Amateur player, a single appearance for us in 1941 against Third Lanark. Born in Singapore in 1905 and also died there on 15/02/1942.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Gordon Baird » Sat May 02, 2015 11:12 am

Four more possibilities with King's Park connections, so they may need further research.

Archibald McLellan - Private S/5816, 9th Seaforth Highlanders. Killed by shell fire on 18th April 1918, aged 24. From Stirling, reported as having played for Cowie Wanderers and 'engaged in a number of matches for King's Park'.

John Kennedy - Private 275599, 7th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. KIA 9th April 1917, aged 26. From Stirling, played for St. Ninian's Thistle and was 'connected with King's Park for a short time' before war broke out.

John Stewart - Company Sergeant-Major 325022, 11th A&SH. KIA 21 October 1917. From Alexandria, a half-back for Dumbarton and King's Park.

Thomas McCulloch - Private 435824, 31st Bt, Canadian Infantry. Killed by a sniper, 3 May 1917. Originally from Cowie, he played at half-back or outside-left for King's Park (1903-05) and East Stirlingshire before emigrating. Awarded the Military Medal for bravery in the field, April 1917.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby IM75 » Mon May 04, 2015 12:10 pm

juniorhistory wrote:I dont post on here often, but thought i'd share this link i found as it may be of interest to some. It deals with the English side of things, and may have some crossover for Scottish Historians.

http://www.footballandthefirstworldwar.com/

In fact having delved into it further there are plenty of Scottish club references in this.


Hi all

First off, my apologies for the length of time it has taken me to post on the forum...

The above is my website (it's dropped the .com and is now footballandthefirstworldwar.org) so I thought I'd better introduce myself (a bit slow off the mark I admit...)

While the website may seem a little English-biased at the moment, I can assure you that the aim is cover both English and Scottish (and eventually Irish) football. The simple fact is that I've had a much better response from those south of the border up to now - probably due to the fact that the site is in partnership with the (English) National Football Museum. I'm also based in the north-west of England (a Manchester City fan for my sins), so much of my research as been dictated by location.

I'd be delighted to expand our Scottish section, especially the 'players served' database and profiles. We have a fair number of Scottish players on the Roll of Honour (which is obviously an on-going and probably life-time undertaking) but there are surely many more names that have not yet been found by us. Any assistance in this area, no matter how large or small, would certainly be appreciated.

For now, I'll keep reading through the forums as I've already found a wealth of information and if I can offer any assistance to anyone myself, please don't hesitate to get in touch at any time.

Thanks again

Iain M.
Last edited by IM75 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Partick Thistle » Mon May 04, 2015 1:42 pm

I hate to add your workload Iain but you'd perhaps wish to consider re-doing those Scottish League tables.

Goal average wasn't introduced until 1921-22 in Scotland. Until then, all teams level on points were deemed to be level in place finish.

Also, on a lesser point, for 6 consecutive seasons from 1915-16 onwards the competition was known as simply the "Scottish Football League". There was no Division Two and therefore there was no mention of a Division One or First Division in those years, despite what the present-day stats databases are trying to tell us in their re-writing of history.

Sorry!

p.s. Great site by the way!
Last edited by Partick Thistle on Mon May 04, 2015 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby cowdenbeather » Mon May 04, 2015 1:47 pm

Another player who I don't think has been included is Bob Baxter of Raith Rovers. A half back, he made 50 appearances for the Kirkcaldy club between 1902 and 1908. Robert Baxter was the captain of Raith Rovers but, in April 1904, he broke his ankle playing in a Fife League match against Cowdenbeath. Raith Rovers and Cowden arranged to play a benefit match for Baxter a month later. Robert Baxter remained on the books of Raith Rovers for few years but never played for the club again. When the Great War came along Baxter enlisted in the 2nd Battalion of the Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) at Cowdenbeath. Private Baxter 3/3977 arrived in France on 22nd April 1915. Exactly 3 weeks later, on 13th May, he was killed in action in the trenches. Robert Baxter is commemorated on the Le Touret Memorial and on the Lumphinnans War Memorial which was unveiled in 1923.

Robert Baxter was originally from Burntisland and he had also been a member of the Burntisland Town Band. He though moved to live in Lumphinnans and worked in the local pits. Baxter volunteered for active service when the war broke out and had previously served in the 1st Battalion of the Black Watch and held the King’s and Queen’s Medals for the South African War.

He is also the father of Dave Baxter (Raith Rovers and St Johnstone) and Bob Baxter (1 game for Raith Rovers plus played junior for Inverkeithing and Hearts of Beath) – Bob junior was the great Jim Baxter’s (step) father. Jim of course served in the Black Watch just like his grandfather.
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby Alan Brown » Mon May 04, 2015 4:22 pm

Hi Ian and welcome to the forum. Probably the best place to get an answer to most questions on Scottish football, someone always seems to have an answer! I had noticed that your website came online late in 2014, and well done for all you have done so far. Regarding the Scottish players, it is an ongoing project, and new names are cropping up all the time. If your using anything from this website could you please give proper acknowledgement to the scottishleague.net website as well as to the individuals involved.

To Gordon and Cowdenbeather, thanks for the names you have uncovered. I will look into these further.

Alan
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Re: Scottish Footballers Roll of Honour

Postby cowdenbeather » Mon May 04, 2015 4:42 pm

Meant to say Robert Baxter was born on 9 January 1875 in Burntisland
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