Scotland Amateur Internationals

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BMCCOLL
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Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by BMCCOLL » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:22 pm

Is there a list of such matches available? I know George Campbell published a book but it is long out of print and I believe George passed away a number of years ago.
http://sfha.org.uk/

bluedragon
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:51 pm

I was looking for some Amateur Internationals a few weeks ago and found a copy of George Campbell's book in the local reference library it covered right up to the end of amateur home internationals. The list is very thorough and some great analysis at the back. If I can help let me know.

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:26 pm

There was a forum thread on amateur internationals a year or so ago discussing what did & did not constitute an amateur international eg vs. Norway & Denmark who considered some of their games as full internationals.

BMCCOLL
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by BMCCOLL » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:53 pm

Many thanks to Andy and Forrest who've offered me a look at their records on these games. Douglas, how extensive was George's book, did it extend to full match details (HTs, refs, line-ups etc)?
http://sfha.org.uk/

LEATHERSTOCKING
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:40 pm

I don`t have Campbell`s book to hand but I recall it does have dates, scorers & line ups. The SAFA have continued to play matches I believe, post 1974.

bluedragon
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:01 pm

From memory the book was published in the mid-1980's and covered the home amateur internationals from the 1920's to 1974 and games against other countries in that timeframe. I think the statistics collected were put in a database by George's son and a large part of the book is a direct print from this with George adding an extensive narrative. Once again from memory it contained:

1. Each game with opponents, date (or sometimes just season) score (can't remember seeing half-times), Scotland goal scorers, Scotland line up and their clubs plus venue. I don't recall seeing referees.

2. A to Z of internationals with the opponents and year of caps won

3. An analysis showing for example number of caps and goals from players from each club.

I hope this helps.

HibeeJibee
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by HibeeJibee » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:19 pm

There is also a listing with dates, scores and venues in Andy Mitchell's excellent "Scotland Programme Guide".


Also, a list of England amateur internationals here: http://www.englandsamateurs.com/downloads/

And a list of Northern Irish amateur internationals here: http://nifootball.blogspot.co.uk/2009/1 ... ional.html

Don't think Welsh details are online.


As noted the Scottish Amateur FA have played 'international' matches since - they may have done so during the period of the SFA's team and before for all I know, too.

According to their website they have played:
* Leinster League since 1999 (Alan R McKay Trophy now replaced by Graham Harkness Trophy)
* Northern Amateur League - from Northern Ireland - since 1978 (Jack Britton Rose Bowl)
* North Wales Coast FA from 1984 to 2004

Seems to be a bit like the Juniors, i.e. their opponents are not actually 'national' organisations.

They also play regular Representative Challenge Matches against the likes of the Scottish Police, Scottish Universities and East of Scotland League, IIRC.

HibeeJibee
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by HibeeJibee » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:30 pm

Slightly off-topic but does anyone know if Schoolboy details are online? I know there was a book produced by the Scottish Schools FA called the "Schoolboy International's Who's Who 1911-97" but I don't think they have any copies now - they used to have them in the Hampden Museum Shop but had run-out when I enquired and said the SSFA had none either - and there is not even a copy in the National Library of Scotland.

There is a list of scores (only) on SSFA website... and some decent info on the Northern Irish equivalent.

http://scottishfa.co.uk/ssfa/scottish_f ... ?page=1822

http://www.nisfa.co.uk/NISFA_Records.aspx
http://nifootball.blogspot.co.uk/2007/0 ... -full.html

Anything else - or England, Wales, Eire?

cowdenbeather
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by cowdenbeather » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:18 pm

I don't believe Schoolboy International details are on line. I do have the booklet you mention and I know there are some names missing from it. Most noticeable is the fact that Gregor Abel is the first player listed but John Abbie from Kirkcaldy played for Scotland v Wales at Central Park, Cowdenbeath on May 5 1934 but isn't listed at all - he should have been the first entry in the alphabetical list. He scored in that game and later played senior with Partick Thistle, St Bernards and Raith Rovers.

BMCCOLL
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by BMCCOLL » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:34 pm

bluedragon wrote:From memory the book was published in the mid-1980's and covered the home amateur internationals from the 1920's to 1974 and games against other countries in that timeframe. I think the statistics collected were put in a database by George's son and a large part of the book is a direct print from this with George adding an extensive narrative. Once again from memory it contained:

1. Each game with opponents, date (or sometimes just season) score (can't remember seeing half-times), Scotland goal scorers, Scotland line up and their clubs plus venue. I don't recall seeing referees.

2. A to Z of internationals with the opponents and year of caps won

3. An analysis showing for example number of caps and goals from players from each club.

I hope this helps.

Just a matter of obtaining a copy! It's a shame this work hasn't been republished since
http://sfha.org.uk/

bluedragon
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:57 pm

Is it worth trying to contact the publisher- if they are still in business ? I can get the details from the library copy if that is any help?

Alan Brown
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by Alan Brown » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:22 pm

Would it be possible that someone with a copy of the booklet would be able to scan it and make it available online?

Alan

prorege
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by prorege » Fri May 01, 2015 6:57 am

It was self-published by George Campbell, in Canada.

It will still be in copyright so scanning and posting on-line wouldn't be appropriate.

If anyone wants a photocopy for private use only then I am happy to do them at cost price + postage. The booklet runs to 50 A4 pages.

Send me a message througy this site if you are interested.

ScottishFA
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by ScottishFA » Fri May 01, 2015 8:52 am

Just to clarify a couple of things, George Campbell's original booklet came out in 1985, and then he produced a revised version in 1990. It is very good but there are still one or two errors, and also he doesn't have some details such as goalscorers or venues. However, if anyone is interested in publishing a definitive account of Scotland amateur internationals, I am still in touch with his family and am sure I could easily get permission to reproduce his work.

George died about 20 years ago in Brantford, Ontario, and there is a George Campbell Park in the town named after him. His family donated his substantial collection of books to the Scottish Football Museum and there is a small plaque in the museum to commemorate this.

As for my Guide to Scotland programmes, which contained a full list of amateur internationals, the last copy was sold a few months ago so it is now officially 'out of print'. However, I'm happy to email the section on amateurs to anyone interested.

Snuff
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Re: Scotland Amateur Internationals

Post by Snuff » Fri May 01, 2015 9:30 am

Alan Brown wrote:
Would it be possible that someone with a copy of the booklet would be able to scan it and make it available online?


I am away this weekend Alan, but, when I get back home, I will give it a go and send it to you.
Snuff

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