Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Cinneide » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:14 am

Willie Paul played for Partick Thistle between 1884 and 1899.

I've seen many references to him guesting for Queen's Park but had always thought of these as occasional appearances.

However, as part of recent research I came across a reference in Athletic News to his benefit match in 1901 in which it suggests something more formal.

"Paul played either one or two seasons for the Queen's Park when they were not too well off for a centre"

I suspect this reference was journalistic license but would appreciate if anyone can give a summary of his QP career? Did he have a longer spell there?
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:56 am

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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Cinneide » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:06 am

Thanks Andy, really useful.

I'm hoping to get a picture of his non-competitive appearances too.

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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:28 pm

Paul also played twice for Queen`s in the Glasgow Cup - 20th September 1890 in a 13-1 1st Round win over Maryhill & on 11th October 1890 vs. 3rd LRV losing 4-2 in the 2nd Round. He didn`t score vs. the Hi Hi but probably did vs. Maryhill but, sadly, the reporter, swamped by scorers didn`t record a single one. Following a different thread on this site, perhaps wishing to remain fairly anonymous, was recorded in some press reports as "Paul".
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Cinneide » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:38 pm

Thanks Forrest

Are there any records for QP friendlies at this time?

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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:37 am

Firstly an aplogy; that reprobate Robertson made a mistake 33 years ago, Willie Paul DIDN`T play for Queen`s vs. St.Mirren on 6th December 1890. Their forward line that day was Gulliland, Berry, Hamilton, Allan & Eccles. In compensation, he DID play 3 friendly matches in a black & white hooped jersey - a 2-2 draw with St.Bernards @ Logie Green on 13/9/1890 scoring both goals, a 1-0 win over the Corinthians @ Kennington Oval on 14/2/1891 scoring the goal & a 2-0 win over Northern @ 2nd Hampden Park on 21/2/1891. He didn`t play a competitive match for Partick that season but flitted between the two clubs which, as an amateur, he was perfectly entitled to so do. Indeed, he played for Queen`s vs. Uddingston in a Scottish Cup tie on 18th October and for Partick against Rangers the following Saturday. He played in another friendly against Rangers on 13/12/1890 and may have played more games for them for which I don`t have records. Strangely he played in neither Queen`s Park vs. Partick Thistle friendlies that season.
Queen`s had an international forward between 1904 & 1913 called Harry Paul. Were they by any chance related?
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Cinneide » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:13 am

Thanks again Forrest

Seems reasonable then to refer to him as an occasional Queen's (and Thistle, in those seasons) player rather than a regular, given the available info?

Harry wasn't an immediate family member - Willie had two brothers - David and James.

You might be interested in a biography of Willie at http://ptearlyyears.net/willie-paul - it's a long read and may need a wee update based on this information.

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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:06 am

Pollockshields vs. Dykebar 10th October 1891- The Dykies sported an H.Paul in their lineup. Harry Paul was playing for neither Queen`s Park nor Partick Thistle that afteernoon. Your man?
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Partick Thistle » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:08 pm

Forrest, Niall notes that Willie played for Queen's Park at the end of season 1887-88 for their 21st birthday celebration. Any info on that per chance?

Perhaps one for Shawfield Boy - Niall reports that Willie guested in a match for Clyde before the start of the season 1888-89. Any info on that one?

The season before the QP "favour" there were at least two extracurricular matches for Willie:

Sat-21-Dec-1889 Rangers 2 Clydesdale Harriers 1 (Friendly)
Willie Paul played at centre for Harriers and missed a good chance to equalise in the second-half. Were they a proper team? The Herald line-up shows they were made up of Dumbarton, St Mirren and 3rd LRV players, although one of them, J.R. Gow was bracketed as a Clydesdale Harrier. My first thoughts are that he might have been from the famous Athletics club?

Sat-26-Apr-1890 Leith Athletic 4 Mossend Swifts 2 (Rosebery Charity Cup Semi Final)
Several thousand witnessed this one at Tynecastle. Both teams took advantage of the rule allowing them to play three outsiders, and Willie was at centre for Mossend. Willie, all in white for the Swifts, headed home an equaliser in 25 minutes. The Leith side were too strong in the second half and ran out comfortable winners.
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:15 pm

Preston North End made a Spring tour of Scotland and the North of England in 1888 with the Scottish games:
25/4/1888 - Hearts 1, PNE 7 @ Tynecastle Park
27/4/1888 - Dumbarton 0, PNE 1 @ Boghead Park
28/4/1888 - Queen`s Park 2, PNE 1 @ 2nd Hampden Park
30/4/1888 - Clydesdale Harriers 4, PNE 0 @ 1st Ibrox Park
1/5/1888 - Kilmarnock 4, PNE 2 @ Rugby Park
Willie Paul played centre forward for Queen`s on the Saturday and centre for the Harriers two days later scoring 2 twice.

The Harriers was the footballing section of the athletics club formed in 1885 and was closely assocated with Rangers frequently using their cinder running track. Impinging on another thread the Maley brothers, Tom & Willie, played for them. Showing the eclectic nature of their membership, the team vs. PNE was: G.Gillespie(Queen`s Park), J.Macara(Battlefield), D.R.Gow(Rangers), J.Oswald(3rd LRV), J.R.Auld(Queen`s Park), J.McLaren(Hibernian), A.Latta(Dumbarton Athletic), A.Thomson(3rd LRV), W.Paul (Partick Thistle),T.Maley(3rd LRV), J.Gow(Rangers). John Gow, Andy Thomson & Willie Paul(2) score for the Harriers who led 3-0 @ half time. George Gillespie was the finest `keeper in the country at the time a Cup winner & oft capped, James Macara moved on to Queen`s Park and collected a Cup winners medal two years later, Donald Gow alternated between Rangers & Sunderland winning caps and two English titles, the Oswald identity is difficult because the press rarley differentiated between James & John, "J.Oswald" not being much help; John played in 3rds Cup winning side on 1889 alongside brother Jimmy who was also capped, John Auld also moved to 3rds and partnered the Oswalds in their Cup winning team later, with Sunderland, played with Donald Gow in their Championship sides, Jimmy McLaren won the Cup with Hibs and also played for Scotland, Alex Latta moved to Merseyside and won the title with Everton and appeared in the Cup Final with Liverpool, Andy Thomson won the Cup with 3rds and was also capped, Willie Paul we know about and Tom Maley too, John Gow won a Scottish cap and later was Rangers` president.

As an aside to the QP/PNE game Queen`s, English Cup finalist in 1884 and 1885, played Preston in the 1st Round on 30th October 1886 at 2nd Hampden a game which sparked the first Hampden Riot! Near the end, North End`s Scottish Internationalist, Jimmy Ross, crudely brought down Billy Harrower who lay dazed on the ground while the crowd went wild. At the end, Ross was hustled off the field as an angry crowd milled around the pavilion threatening unpleasant retribution. Several attempts to get Ross out were thwarted as spectators surged forward and it`s reputed that he only escaped inside the team`s kit hamper. So when Preston visited in 1888 speculation was that J.Ross jnr. wouldn`t turn out; he did, however, and apart from some light badinage all went peacefully. The unpleasantness of the 1886 game was one of the factors in the SFA`s decision in 1887 to ban Scottish clubs entering the English Cup.
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby Partick Thistle » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:04 pm

Fantastic Forrest, thanks indeed.

Yes, those gentlemanly Corinthians weren't always thus. I recall an incident of 26th October 1895 at 2nd Hampden Park, when the home players, frustrated at trailing by one goal to five, successfully harangued the referee into ordering Thistle's Willie Paul (renowned for his fair play) from the field for the one and only time in his career. Oh the irony!
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:36 am

Correction to my previous note, Willie Paul didn`t score against PNE when playing for QP is was Woodville "Woody" Gray guesting from Pollokshields Athletic. Gray spasmodically guested for the Spiders during the 80s(I`m not sure if it wasn`t the other way round like Willie Paul in fact). Does anyone have any more information on him? He won a single cap in 1886 and I believe he died in Birkenhead in the 30s.
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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby ScottishFA » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:55 am

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Re: Willie Paul of Partick Thistle, and Queen's Park

Postby LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:46 am

Thank you for that. Some boy, literally, that Woody. He scored both goals against Preston in 1888, one in either half after PNE had opened the scoring in the first minute. In the following season, they won the inaugural league championship without losing a game and the Cup without losing a goal while Queen`s had but one more Cup win awaiting(to date anyway; a 124 year hiatus only). I had hoped for an end to the wait in this the club`s sesquecentennial but Ayr Utd. got in the way. Still, next season, eh? Promotion to the Championship would be a nice consolation.
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