Dundee United wins in the Scottish League Cup

Scottish Football Answers to Questions
Post Reply
Carlucci
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:39 pm
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
Contact:

Dundee United wins in the Scottish League Cup

Post by Carlucci » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:02 pm

Could anyone name the line-ups, scorers, scoring sequence , managers in charge of the teams, and referees in 1979 and 1980 Scottish Cup Finals, both won by Dundee United. Why these matches were not played at Hampden Park ? Thank you a lot.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:19 pm

Dundee United v Aberdeen, League Cup Final, December 8th 1979 at HAMPDEN PARK

Dundee United: McAlpine, Clark, Kopel, Phillip (Fleming), Hegarty, Narey, Bannon, Sturrock, Pettigrew, Holt, Payne (Murray)

Aberdeen: Clark, Kennedy, Rougvie, McLeish, Garner, Miller, Strachan, Archibald, McGhee (Jarvie), McMaster (Hamilton), Scanlon

The match finished 0-0 after 30 minutes extra time

Replay December 12th 1979 at Dens Park, Dundee
Dundee United: Fleming replaced Phillip, Kirkwood replaced Payne. Otherwise the same starting line-up and no subs used.
Aberdeen: Same starting line-up. Jarvie came on for McGhee and Hamilton for Scanlon

Dundee United won 3-0 (1-0 HT) with goals from Willie Pettigrew (2) and Paul Sturrock.

Referee for both games was Mr BR (Brian) McGinlay of Balfron. JIm McLean was the Dundee United manager and Alex Ferguson was Aberdeen's.

The first match attracted just 27,156 - the lowest ever for a League Cup Final - so the League switched the venue for the replay to prevent supporters from making a long journey to Glasgow on a midweek evening in December and to spare themselves from the embarrassment of another record low crowd. There were 28,984 at the replay and it was a much better atmosphere as Dens Park is of course a lot smaller than Hampden.

Dundee United v Dundee, League Cup Final, December 6th 1980 at Dens Park, Dundee

Dundee United:
McAlpine, Holt, Kopel, Phillip, Hegarty, Narey, Bannon, Payne, Pettigrew, Sturrock, Dodds

Dundee: R Geddes, Barr, Schaedler, Fraser, Glennie, McGeachie, Mackie, Stephen, Sinclair, Williamson, A Geddes

Quite simply this match HAD to be played in Dundee. It made no sense to ask supporters to travel to Hampden. As a result this was one of the rare occasions when a major Final was played on the club ground of one of the finalists (Dundee).

Like the previous year, United won 3-0 after leading 1-0 at half-time. Davie Dodds and Paul Sturrock (2) were the scorers. There were 24,466 at the match which was refereed by Mr RB (Bob) Valentine of Dundee whose appointment should have the authorities some money in travelling expenses :)

Jim McLean for United and Don Mackay for Dundee were the respective managers.

Just to make it clear these were LEAGUE CUP Finals, not SCOTTISH CUP.
Last edited by Scottish on Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobby s
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:15 am
Location: Nittingrange
Contact:

Post by bobby s » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:40 pm

Spookily enough, Hibs won the Scottish Cup in 1902 at Darkheid against Celtic.

How many times have teams played on their own grounds at Scottish/League Cup Finals?

Have they lost every time?

Furthermore.

Hibs put out Rangers & Celtic out of the league Cup in 85 & 2003/04, and then lost the final to Aberdeen and Ferranti Thistle respectively. I'm told that NO TEAM has ever put out both the old firm and gone on to win the final [although some have managed to beat one old firm team, and then managed to beat the other in the final, if that makes sense]

I think it's also true to say that the day that Hibs lost to Ferranti Thistle was the anniversary of the Scottish Cup Final defeat to Hearts.

Plus ca change.
It's the Hope I can't stand

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:28 pm

I make the following all to have played on their own ground in major cup finals
Scottish Cup
1874 Queen’s Park (won)
1875 Queen’s Park (won)
1902 Celtic (lost)

League Cup
1980-81 Dundee (lost)

You’re right about no team beating both the Old Firm prior to a Final then winning the competition. But it’s not that odd when you think about it. In order to do so it means there must be no Old Firm team in the Final – pretty rare in the first place. Then they have to be drawn against BOTH the OF – also pretty rare. Finally they have to BEAT the pair of them – rarer still.

In the 1938 Scottish Cup Killie beat Celtic away and Rangers at Hampden before losing to East Fife in the Final.

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:14 pm

The following are the 8 occasions where a team has beaten both the OF in the Scottish Cup.

Hibernian 1902 2
Clyde 1910 2
St Mirren 1926 2
Kilmarnock 1929 2
Kilmarnock 1938 2
Heart of Midlothian 1956 2
Aberdeen 1982 2
Aberdeen 1983 2

6 times they've gone onto win it

The finals those years were


Sat 26 Apr 1902 Hibernian 1 Celtic 0
Wed 20 Apr 1910 Dundee 2 Clyde 1
Sat 10 Apr 1926 St Mirren 2 Celtic 0
Sat 06 Apr 1929 Kilmarnock 2 Rangers 0
Wed 27 Apr 1938 East Fife 4 Kilmarnock 2
Sat 21 Apr 1956 Heart of Midlothian 3 Celtic 1
Sat 22 May 1982 Aberdeen 4 Rangers 1
Sat 21 May 1983 Aberdeen 1 Rangers 0
Last edited by Sat31March1928 on Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:25 pm

6 times in lc

Hibernian 1973 2
Aberdeen 1977 2
Aberdeen 1980 2
Aberdeen 1988 2
Aberdeen 1990 2
Hibernian 2004 2

finals were

Sat 09 Dec 1972 Hibernian 2 Celtic 1
Sat 06 Nov 1976 Aberdeen 2 Celtic 1
Wed 12 Dec 1979 Dundee United 3 Aberdeen 0
Sun 25 Oct 1987 Rangers 3 Aberdeen 3
Sun 22 Oct 1989 Aberdeen 2 Rangers 1

and Livvy Hibs
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:40 pm

I can find no instances of a team beating the OF and Hearts or Aberdeen

Once OF and Hibs

Aberdeen 1983 3
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:42 pm

And 2 instances of a team beating the OF and Queen's Park

Hibernian 1902
Clyde 1910
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:04 pm

Sat31March1928 wrote:6 times in lc

Hibernian 1973 2
Aberdeen 1977 2
Aberdeen 1980 2
Aberdeen 1988 2
Aberdeen 1990 2
Hibernian 2004 2

finals were

Sat 09 Dec 1972 Hibernian 2 Celtic 1
Sat 06 Nov 1976 Aberdeen 2 Celtic 1
Wed 12 Dec 1979 Dundee United 3 Aberdeen 0
Sun 25 Oct 1987 Rangers 3 Aberdeen 3
Sun 22 Oct 1989 Aberdeen 2 Rangers 1

and Livvy Hibs
I don't think 1988 is right as Rangers beat Aberdeen in penalties in the Final. Surely Hibs in 85-86 when they lost to Aberdeen in the final is the other one?

All told then that's five times a team has beaten both the OF and gone on to reach a Final - Clyde 1910, Killie 1938 Scottish Cup, Aberdeen 1980, Hibs, 1986, 2004 League Cup - and every time they've lost.

So a new claim to fame for the Hibees - the only side to knock out the OF twice and STILL lose the Final

:twisted:

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:13 am

scottish wrote:
Sat31March1928 wrote:6 times in lc

Hibernian 1973 2
Aberdeen 1977 2
Aberdeen 1980 2
Aberdeen 1988 2
Aberdeen 1990 2
Hibernian 2004 2

finals were

Sat 09 Dec 1972 Hibernian 2 Celtic 1
Sat 06 Nov 1976 Aberdeen 2 Celtic 1
Wed 12 Dec 1979 Dundee United 3 Aberdeen 0
Sun 25 Oct 1987 Rangers 3 Aberdeen 3
Sun 22 Oct 1989 Aberdeen 2 Rangers 1

and Livvy Hibs
I don't think 1988 is right as Rangers beat Aberdeen in penalties in the Final. Surely Hibs in 85-86 when they lost to Aberdeen in the final is the other one?

All told then that's five times a team has beaten both the OF and gone on to reach a Final - Clyde 1910, Killie 1938 Scottish Cup, Aberdeen 1980, Hibs, 1986, 2004 League Cup - and every time they've lost.

So a new claim to fame for the Hibees - the only side to knock out the OF twice and STILL lose the Final

:twisted:
It's my database showing it as an Aberdeen win despite the loss on penalties. I'll update my DB.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:59 am

I hope this doesn't sound picky considering what must have gone in to creating that database but in the match against Wales on May 28th 1977 Don Masson shows up as Queen's Park instead of QPR and that has a knock-on effect on the number of Queen's Park internationalists.

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:29 pm

scottish wrote:I hope this doesn't sound picky considering what must have gone in to creating that database but in the match against Wales on May 28th 1977 Don Masson shows up as Queen's Park instead of QPR and that has a knock-on effect on the number of Queen's Park internationalists.
Not at all.

That's the feedback that I want.

I'm in the process of adding in the Wartime Internationals any 'double checking' most gratefully received.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Sat31March1928
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Musselburgh
Contact:

Post by Sat31March1928 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:07 pm

scottish wrote:I hope this doesn't sound picky considering what must have gone in to creating that database but in the match against Wales on May 28th 1977 Don Masson shows up as Queen's Park instead of QPR and that has a knock-on effect on the number of Queen's Park internationalists.
Hi just fixed the Don Masson error.

Just Transferring up the files.
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:33 pm

I've e-mailed the SFA about Hay/Schaedler.

One day everything everywhere will be accurate

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests