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Roald Jensen Hearts league appearances 1967/68

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:58 am
by Jensen
Hello !

Could anyone please help me make clear how many league appearances Roald Jensen made for Hearts in the 1967/68 season.
According to the brilliant London Hearts Supporters club web site he made 15 appearances, but looking in the Hearts programme handbook edition for the 67/68 season he made 16.
Maybe somone with access to John Litsers CD's "A RECORD OF POST-WAR SCOTTISH LEAGUE PLAYERS" could help me solve this issue ?

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:26 am
by Scottish
It's 15 according to Litster and also the News of the World Football Annual & the book "Gritty, Gallant & Glorious" which has teams for each game. As London Hearts also have line-ups for every game I would go with them.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:58 am
by Jensen
Thanks a lot "scottish" !

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:38 pm
by Sat31March1928
I'm currently working with David Speed Hearts Club Historian to verify all our data. So we should have a 'definitive' view on Hearts appearances. However it can be confusing as some of the club's records are contradictory.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:05 pm
by Scottish
One of the problems with appearances in old sources is that clubs used to be in the habit of announcing teams a day beforehand so that they could be listed in the morning paper. If a player got injured or fell ill in the meantime his replacement often wasn't mentioned in the Saturday/Sunday papers.

Then there's the vexed question of substitutions. The generally accepted formula is e.g. 20a (5s) meaning twenty starts and five times on as a sub. I collate my stats differently - I would put 25a (5s) as 25 appearances five of which were as a sub.

My reasoning for this is that the days are long gone when there were only a few subs each season. Nowadays it's very rare indeed for any outfield player to play every minute of every league game in a season. The reason for the original formula was to distinguish between players who were on the pitch all the time as opposed to those appearing for only a few minutes.

As a result it can often work the other way. A player taken off injured after a couple of minutes - famously, Jim Leighton in the 2000 Scottish Cup Final - appears as having made a full appearance whereas Robbie Winters who came on in that game and played for almost 90 minutes gets the same 's' as a time-wasting injury time sub.

Of course in international football a cap is a cap. Every record book says Kenny Dalglish played 102 times for Scotland not 94 +8s.

Over the course of a career the number of subs a player makes can be a substantial part of his total. For instance Alan Robertson is Killie's record holder for league appearances. But either he made just three more appearances than Stuart McLean or 34 more appearances - almost a season's worth - depending on how you look at subs

Neither method of counting is satisfactory though and I wish someone could come up with an easy method of counting up minutes played to be divided by 90 so that we could have a full-time equivalent. In the case of Dalglish this would 'reduce' his cap total by around ten.

Having a FTE would also allow for time lost through sendings-off to be taken into account.

It would also end those irksome stories about strikers not having scored in so many matches when in reality they may have played less than one full game. In my new Killie book I make reference to Kris Boyd's first six appearances for Kilmarnock (one start and five subs) not amounting to 90 minutes in total.

It would also allow for a fairer comparison between past and present internationally. I know you have weighted caps total on London Hearts which is along the same lines but I think looking at actual minutes played would be an eye-opener.