Setanta

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HibeeJibee
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Post by HibeeJibee » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:39 pm

ACPOS have rejected Juniors having SFs on Fridays... and were unhappy with Livingston trying it in the First Division. Would they sanction SPL ties?

Scottish
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Post by Scottish » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:15 am

Who knows? We're in the crazy situation now whereby the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce is asking for 3pm OF Sunday kick-offs!

Problems over scheduling are only inevitable if Sky takes over the rights as they already have English league football on the same days and times as when Setanta broadcast the SPL and it is safe to assume they won't want to show two matches live simultaneously if they can avoid it. But if it goes to ESPN there's no need to move from the Setanta arrangements. ESPN would then be taking over the exisiting Setanta schedules for both English Premiership and SPL. They would have little room for manoeuvre and in any case it makes sound business sense to carry on where Setanta left off if they want to pick up existing subscribers.

However, as 23 of the 46 Premiership matches ESPN have this season revert to Sky in 2010-11 then it's possible that for the coming season only the SPL would take that slot if the rights go to Sky. That would be either the 5.15 Saturday or 7.45- 8.00 Monday games, I'm not sure which it is that goes back to Sky in 2010-11.

Of course there's no way the OF games could be shown at either time (an indictment in itself of our game that 'high-risk' English matches can be played but the OF can't). Any games involving Rangers can't be played on a Monday night before a Champions League tie and I'm sure no other club involved in Europe would want a Monday night fixture either.

The same applies to Friday matches in the same week as European games.

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Post by lbb » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:12 am

scottish wrote: Of course there's no way the OF games could be shown at either time (an indictment in itself of our game that 'high-risk' English matches can be played but the OF can't).
I don't really see it as an indictment of our game, more an indictment of the influence of Strathclyde Police. This all stems from ONE match when Rangers won the League at Celtic Park - and how often does that happen? - and a few Celtic fans reacted badly. It had little to do with the kick-off time, in my view, yet we've allowed the Police to dictate times ever since. We even lost the traditional New Year fixture on the back of that match even though it was rarely a fixture of extreme trouble.

I was in London when Arsenal won the League at White Hart Lane in 2004 and you didn't want to be in Seven Sisters Road after that one. Yet Metropolitan Police didn't issue any demands for future North London derbies after it.

The Police here have too much say in when games take place - their ridiculous refusal to allow Friday night games which would be very popular.

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Post by Scottish » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:27 am

lbb wrote: This all stems from ONE match when Rangers won the League at Celtic Park - and how often does that happen? -
Aye, 100 years of sweetness, light and harmony marred by one sad occasion? That's the problem, isn't it? Police over-reaction. Like when they intervened to stop the losing side's fans from walking across the pitch to shake the victors' hands in the 1980 Scottish Cup Final for instance?

The SPL is the only league in Europe that is terrified by the prospect of the title being decided in a game between the top two clubs. Every other league salivates at the prospect.

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Post by lbb » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:07 am

scottish wrote: Aye, 100 years of sweetness, light and harmony marred by one sad occasion? That's the problem, isn't it? Police over-reaction. Like when they intervened to stop the losing side's fans from walking across the pitch to shake the victors' hands in the 1980 Scottish Cup Final for instance?
Not forgetting the 1909 Final, of course...

But seriously, the vast majority of Old Firm games pass off peacefully. We've allowed a hysteria to develop around them that they can never be played at certain times as if the world would end if they did. It's a nonsense.
scottish wrote:The SPL is the only league in Europe that is terrified by the prospect of the title being decided in a game between the top two clubs.
Yes, they shouldn't be. I agree with you.

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Post by Scottish » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Confirmation from the administrators that anyone paying by direct debit has lost their money. Or, as it says on Setanta's website, "Unfortunately those who have paid by Direct Debit will be unsecured creditors of Setanta, and Setanta is unable to make any refunds."

lbb
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Post by lbb » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:20 am

The clubs met yesterday to deliberate on an offer from Sky & ESPN.

What is there to deliberate? Do they think it's the NFL they are selling? Surely after screwing up several TV deals now, they'll learn their lesson, shut up and just accept the money. They will not get a better offer.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:54 pm

lbb wrote:The clubs met yesterday to deliberate on an offer from Sky & ESPN.

What is there to deliberate? Do they think it's the NFL they are selling? Surely after screwing up several TV deals now, they'll learn their lesson, shut up and just accept the money. They will not get a better offer.
My understanding is the Sky/ESPN deal is worth about £99M over 5 years. This equates to just under £20M a year. Setanta were paying about £14M for next year - then (claiming) they would pay over £30M a year for the 4 years following. The SPL should be biting Sky/ESPN's hand off... They get more £££ next season than anticipated, plus still a healthy increase after.

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Post by Scottish » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:14 pm

HibeeJibee wrote:The SPL should be biting Sky/ESPN's hand off...
Agreed. But according to our boy Darryl in The Herald they're talking about SPL TV again. Broadfoot reckons its been a great success in Holland so could be here.

The Netherlands has a population over three times larger than Scotland and their teams play each other just twice. They also have nine top division matches every week as opposed to six. In fact just like Scotland was before 1975.

Darryl mentions none of that of course but makes it look like the SPL failed inexplicably to lay the golden egg of SPL TV in 2002.

Naturally none of his opinions are in any way prejudiced by the fact that he worked for Setanta.

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Post by lbb » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:40 am

HibeeJibee wrote: My understanding is the Sky/ESPN deal is worth about £99M over 5 years. This equates to just under £20M a year. Setanta were paying about £14M for next year - then (claiming) they would pay over £30M a year for the 4 years following. The SPL should be biting Sky/ESPN's hand off... They get more £££ next season than anticipated, plus still a healthy increase after.
It looks like some of the clubs are griping about the money being less than the money Setanta never actually paid. I seriously wonder about the business brains behind some of these clubs. Frankly, if some of them have budgeted for a contract that hadn't even kicked in yet then they deserve all they get. I really can't believe the arrogance of some of the clubs. Motherwell are being horsed by Welsh teams and here is two of the biggest broadcasters in the world offering us a lifeboat and we're debating whether to build our own. Incredible.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:55 am

I believe there is a very insulated situation within the SPL administration, which has come to believe that their product is exceptionally valuable (i.e. as valuable as Setanta claimed they would pay - confusing promised price with value). They are then looking at a situation where the only option on the table is worth less than they would like - confusing market value with perceived/aspired value. They have an ideal figure, and want the market to meet it. The other problem is that a lot of clubs have budgeted on the Setanta £££ from 2010-11 onwards bailing them out. They haven't been reducing their debts, managing their wage bills or investing in facilities as much as might have been advisable: because they expected a quite huge upsurge in cash in a couple of years time. Now that won't be provided by private broadcasters, so some clubs want to set up their own it appears...

The fact that Setanta's deal was ludicrous is irrelevant: it was a bigger £X.

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Post by lbb » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:03 pm

That's a fair summary of the situation. There seems to be an element of denial here as if the SPL administration itself can't take in Setanta's demise and are clinging onto the belief that something better is 'just around the corner'. Have they actually stood back and looked at the situation? Poor performances in Europe, lots of teams losing good players to England, very few full houses - what do they have to bargain with? Oh yeah, and they're trying to get the ONLY bidder to raise their bid or else...well, nothing. It really is amateurish. I'm actually getting embarrassed for them.

They need to take the deal and take it really quickly. And, yeah, I would take the 5-year deal, none of this 'we'll have an option after three years to look at setting up ourselves'. What is that? Some futile attempt at pretending there is an alternative on the horizon? Do they seriously think Sky and ESPN are tourists just off the plane? They know you've no alternative. They know you're bluffing. They've seen your cards. They have your balls in their hands. Take the deal. Take it.

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Post by Scottish » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:13 pm

lbb wrote: They have your balls in their hands. Take the deal. Take it.
Could possibly have been framed a tad more diplomatically but an accurate assessment nonetheless.

Talk of opt-outs after three years and possibly taking two weeks to make a decision is beyond belief. For the SPL a TV deal is a necessity. For Sky/ESPN it's an afterthought. The SPL has precisely as many options as the German delegation at Compiegne in November 1918.

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Post by lbb » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Apologies for being so blunt. :oops:

Someone on another forum made the point that 'that they should be comparing the Sky/ESPN deal to what the Setanta deal amounts to....thin air.' They need to start living in reality.

I had a mental image of the Sky/ESPN execs gently humouring the SPL when they told them they'll get back to them in a fortnight. It's like Del Boy Trotter having business meetings in his boardroom aka kitchen. They'll play along with it for so long but they won't wait forever.

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Post by HibeeJibee » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:04 pm

Sadly it demonstrates too well the calibre of people running some clubs...

I suspect Rod Petrie, Stewart Milne etc. cringe at some of these amateurs and delusionists who have 1/12th of a vote each on this. Faintly ridiculous.

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