Missing Hampden Crowds

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Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Scottish » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Many on here will be aware that when I was writing my book 'ROAR Of The Crowd' back in 2004-05, the Scottish Football Museum very kindly gave me access to the Hampden gate book - figures from which are available from January 1934 onwards. From this I was able to find not just new attendance figures for previously estimated games but to correct ones which had appeared in print over many years (usually just a difference of a couple of thousand or so but also the notoriously inaccurate figure for the League Cup Final of 1953-54 which is usually given as 50,000 more than were actually there.

Because of pressure of time both on the book and my ability to get to Hampden, I had to adopt a quite rigorous procedure when copying figures. International matches (including wartime) and major cup final and semi-finals (again, including wartime and also including Junior finals and semis) were my priority. I also prioritised 'other' big games like the European Cup, Celtic's matches v Racing, Ajax & Leeds, Rangers v Eintracht for the floodlight opening, Great Britain v the Rest of Europe and inter-league and U-23/U-21 games. I found that I had a little time left after completing this so took down Queen's Park's home figures for the league and the two domestic cups. Naturally, this meant there were still a great number of matches I had been unable to obtain figures from, most importantly Queen's Park's wartime league & cup figures and Glasgow & Charity Cup matches. There have been many other Hampden games such as Amateur Cup Finals for instance but short of being able to spend a month solid in the bowels of the stadium, I can see no way of coming up with these. It's not just a simple matter of noting down a total- numbers are counted for different parts of the ground, stands, comps & what were then called Boys/OAPs separately. These have to be added up for each and every game.

In the intervening years I have tried to add these figures whenever possible, using accurate ones where available and estimates where not. The availability of many of the wartime Sunday Posts on the BNA has helped over the past year or so, but there are still some forty-odd matches outstanding.

Now, my reason for making this post is that Hampden is closing down for the Commonwealth Games after this coming Saturday so it struck me as a good time to try and count up attendance figures for the various competitions and for the stadium as a whole. Naturally, the more figures I can track down the more accurate i can be.

So, after all that palaver, these are the games for which I have no figure whatsoever.

All Queen's Park homes unless stated otherwise.

Wartime Queen's Park Homes. League unless stated otherwise

1939-40 All matches EXCEPT the two pre-war games and v Rangers 20/4/40
1940-41 V Airdrie, Motherwell, Hamilton, Hibs, St Mirren, Falkirk, Clyde
V Third Lanark New Year's Day fixtures 1942, 1943, 1945
V Celtic 10/4/44, 16/8/45
v Clyde 3/1/44
v QoS 3/11/45
v Falkirk 2/1/46

Summer Cup

v Hearts 14/6/41

Glasgow Cup

Final 8/4/63 Third Lanark v Celtic

Glasgow Cup Queen's Park Homes

v Clyde 6/9/49
v Celtic 3/9/52
v Celtic 20/8/53
v Partick Thistle 26/8/54
v Clyde 20/8/56
v Third Lanark 2/9/57
v Partick Thistle 25/8/58
v Clyde 1/9/58
v Celtic 14/8/79

Glasgow Merchants Charity Cup
v Third Lanark 1/5/48, 4/8/57, 2/5/58
Also Partick Thistle v Third Lanark 4/5/27

Junior Cup Semi-final
St Anthony's v Parkhead 12/4/19

Like I say, I have no figures whatsoever for any of these games so any help would be appreciated, even estimates. I am also looking for accurate figures not just for these matches but in general for Queen's Park home games 1940-46 and the Glasgow & Charity Cups. I have accurate figures for many of these and estimates for all except the above but it would be good to have any others which are out there.

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Partick Thistle » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:39 pm

Only one of Thistle crowds I'm afraid, and an estimate at that...

Glasgow Cup Quarter Final
Mon-25-Aug-1958
Queen's Park [a] L1-2
Att: 7,000
William

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Scottish » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:02 am

Thanks for that one. I also now have all the outstanding Charity Cup ties.

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by qpsnapper » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:02 pm

I have quite a few of the others, I will dig them out and post them when time permits, hopefully this weekend.

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Scottish » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:15 pm

Many thanks

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by qpsnapper » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:44 pm

scottish wrote: Wartime Queen's Park Homes. League unless stated otherwise

1939-40 All matches EXCEPT the two pre-war games and v Rangers 20/4/40
1940-41 V Airdrie, Motherwell, Hamilton 4737, Hibs 3515, St Mirren 3658, Falkirk 4115, Clyde 5779
V Third Lanark New Year's Day fixtures 1942 9662, 1943 4786 1945 6915
V Celtic 10/4/44 15130, 16/8/45 23017
v Clyde 3/1/44 8444
v QoS 3/11/45 5991
v Falkirk 2/1/46 8141

Summer Cup

v Hearts 14/6/41 1749

Glasgow Cup

Final 8/4/63 Third Lanark v Celtic

Glasgow Cup Queen's Park Homes

v Clyde 6/9/49 7634
v Celtic 3/9/52 17408
v Celtic 20/8/53 12913
v Partick Thistle 26/8/54 6460
v Clyde 20/8/56 3849
v Third Lanark 2/9/57 5900
v Partick Thistle 25/8/58 3879
v Clyde 1/9/58 3331
v Celtic 14/8/79 1673

Glasgow Merchants Charity Cup
v Third Lanark 1/5/48 12182, 4/8/57 (I assume this should be 04/05/1957? - 7880) , 2/5/58 2604
Also Partick Thistle v Third Lanark 4/5/27

Junior Cup Semi-final
St Anthony's v Parkhead 12/4/19

Like I say, I have no figures whatsoever for any of these games so any help would be appreciated, even estimates. I am also looking for accurate figures not just for these matches but in general for Queen's Park home games 1940-46 and the Glasgow & Charity Cups. I have accurate figures for many of these and estimates for all except the above but it would be good to have any others which are out there.
I have given figures for any games that I have a record of,these are all taken from the Hampden gatebooks. I have most of the QP crowds from 1940/41 onwards, if you wish I could stick them on a spreadsheet and e-mail them to you. Sorry, but I didn't take a note of the figures for any non-QP games.

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Scottish » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:44 pm

That's great. Many thanks. As explained above, I did have access to the datebook from January 1934 onwards so have QP figures for 'official' seasons. I simply didn't have time to not down wartime or Glasgow & Charity Cups etc. So the figures which I DO have for these years are chiefly Sunday Post estimates. So, yes, I would be grateful if you could mail me the figures for 1940-1946 inclusive. Also any post-war figures for the Glasgow Cup and Charity Cup as again all I have are newspaper estimates for many of these. For 1939-40 all I have are the two pre-war league games and the match v Rangers. if you have any of those that would be helpful as well.

If you don't know the email address then PM me. It's not a good idea to post email addresses here as it just attracts spambots.

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Re: Missing Hampden Crowds

Post by Scottish » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:30 pm

Also, if there's anything YOU don't have Jan 1934-Sep 1939 inclusive, let me know and I'll send.

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