Some Hearts errors in Richard Keir's Book The Complete...

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Sat31March1928
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Some Hearts errors in Richard Keir's Book The Complete...

Post by Sat31March1928 » Thu May 25, 2006 11:36 am

I've been working with David Speed putting together a list of all Hearts players who were capped whilst playing for Hearts. See

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/players/inter.htm

I had '4 extra players' which are 'wrong' in RK's book and used to be wrong on my database.

Charlie Cox is given as playing in 1948 against France.

It was Sammy Cox of Rangers. So Charlie never won a cap. :!:

See

http://www.londonhearts.com/scotland/ga ... 80523.html

Also

Dave McPherson signed for Rangers on 4th June 1992

So his three games in the Euros should be credited to Rangers rather than Hearts.

I still need to transfer up the latest web page. so you can see the wrong data here

http://www.londonhearts.com/scotland/pl ... ncesbydate

Details correct on the game page

http://www.londonhearts.com/scotland/ga ... 20612.html
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

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Post by Scottish » Thu May 25, 2006 12:37 pm

The Charlie Cox thing is a common error. I think Andy Mitchell at the SFA uncovered this a couple of years back.

The McPherson business throws up a common problem - that of the status of players capped in the 'close season' I first came across this with Tommy McLean. Agreement was reached to transfer McLean from Kilmarnock to Rangers in June 1971. Contemporary records showed his cap v Denmark on June 9th 1971 as coming while with Rangers.

Yet unless Rangers actually flew out to Denmark to sign him this is impossible. His registration still had to be with Killie. Richard Keir has him as with Killie, which is correct.

Incidentally, McLean was never capped again after moving to Ibrox. Just shows what happens when you make a downward move :P

McPherson is a similar problem. June 4th was the day after Scotland played in Norway and the team was en route to Sweden for Euro 1992. So, was his registration actually changed to Rangers while the player was out of the country? Did Rangers have officials travelling with the Scotland squad?

Admiteddly the McLean transfer was before the fax machine so it's possible McPherson's registration WAS changed while abroad but it's worth double-checking I think.

A similar anomaly was during the 1994 World Cup. Pat Bonner was freed by Celtic and reached agreement with Tommy Burns to sign for Killie. Many papers duly recorded Bonner as a Kilmarnock playerwhen listing the Irish squad for the Finals. I was on holiday in Ireland at the time and can confirm this was the case, even in the Irish press. But Burns walked out to take over at Celtic and - a month later - duly re-signed Bonner at Parkhead.

However, while he was at the World Cup, Bonner wasn't registered with any club. So even though he played for Celtic in 1993-94 and in 1994-95 his World Cup appearances came while he was unattached.

This will become more and more frequent at major tournaments under freedom of contract.

Sat31March1928
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Post by Sat31March1928 » Thu May 25, 2006 1:00 pm

scottish wrote:
............

Admiteddly the McLean transfer was before the fax machine so it's possible McPherson's registration WAS changed while abroad but it's worth double-checking I think.

............

.
According to David Speed the Newspapers reported him as signing on the 4th June. And its also in another source. I'll update the name of this when I get home.

Also another issue is 'loan signings'.

e.g.

Should Gary Caldwell be shown as playing for Hibs or Newcastle? When he was initially on loan to Hibs. I have him as Newcastle.

http://www.londonhearts.com/scotland/pl ... ncesbydate

Hearts 'loan' signings this season I have as playing for Hearts as this is a device for VR to get the players to Hearts and the players in question never played for FCK this season.
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Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu May 25, 2006 8:39 pm

Didn`t Sunderland release Martin Woods just before the U21 International vs.N.Ireland this month so he too would be "unattched"?

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Post by ScottishFA » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:09 pm

I've checked the SFA registration records for these players, and thought you might like to know the precise dates:

Tommy McLean signed for Rangers on 16 June 1971, and the date of registration is the following day. So he was still a Killie player for the game against Denmark.

Dave McPherson is listed as signing for Rangers on 4 June 1992, with registration the same day. Given that he would have been out of the country at the time, I can only assume that the form was delivered to Park Gardens that day by prior agreement with the player.

Finally, Martin Woods was indeed told he was being released by Sunderland just before the end of season Under 21 matches, but his registration would remain with the club until his contract expired, presumably at the end of May. However, there were players last season who were genuinely out of contract, eg Tom Brighton, who played for Scotland Under 21s last June and is listed as 'unattached'.

Andy Mitchell, SFA

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Post by Scottish » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:42 pm

Many thanks for that, Andy. Good job Scotland didn't qualify for the World Cup then? Otherwise you wouldn't have been available to dig out that information for us.

Ah well, every cloud and that...

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