Dates of points deductions for teams in the Scottish League?

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Dates of points deductions for teams in the Scottish League?

Postby Sat31March1928 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:23 pm

I got asked the following question.

Do you have dates of points deductions for teams in the Scottish League. I believe they happened in these seasons:

1890/91 - Celtic, Third Lanark & Cowlairs 4 points each
1893/94 - Port Glasgow Athletic - 7 points
1894/95 - Dundee W + 2 points
1896/97 - Linthouse 4 points
1903/04 - Albion R - 2 points
1906/07 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points
1907/08 - Dumbarton 2 points
1922/23 - St Bernard's - 2 points
1947/48 - Alloa - 2 points
1988/89 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points
1989/90 - Forfar - 2 points
1994/95 - Meadowbank - 3 points
1999/00 - Hamilton A - 15 points
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Re: Dates of points deductions for teams in the Scottish Lea

Postby Skyline Drifter » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:24 pm

Sat31March1928 wrote:I got asked the following question.

Do you have dates of points deductions for teams in the Scottish League. I believe they happened in these seasons:

1890/91 - Celtic, Third Lanark & Cowlairs 4 points each
1893/94 - Port Glasgow Athletic - 7 points
1894/95 - Dundee W + 2 points
1896/97 - Linthouse 4 points
1903/04 - Albion R - 2 points
1906/07 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points
1907/08 - Dumbarton 2 points
1922/23 - St Bernard's - 2 points
1947/48 - Alloa - 2 points
1988/89 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points
1989/90 - Forfar - 2 points
1994/95 - Meadowbank - 3 points
1999/00 - Hamilton A - 15 points

Hamilton were deducted 15 points at a meeting of the SFL league Management Committee on Thursday 20th April 2000. This was as a result of their failure to fulfil a fixture against Stenhousemuir at Ochilview the month before as their players, unpaid for some time, decided on strike action.

The decision was appealled to the SFA but upheld. Not sure when the appeal was heard.


Is this supposed to be a comprehensive list of deductions incidentally? Or is it just these specific ones that information is needed on? I merely ask because we (Queen of the South) were deducted two points in 1988/89 for fielding an ineligible player but we're not in the list. Unless that is the Cowdenbeath name in that year is a mistake?
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Postby BMCCOLL » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:30 pm

My (incomplete) list of dates are

1890/91 - Cowlairs deducted between 30 Aug and 12 Sept 1890
Celtic by 25 Oct 1890
Third Lanark (when?)

1893/94 - Port Glasgow Athletic - 7 points before the game against Abercorn on 9 Sep 1893

1894/95 - Dundee W + 2 points awarded points before 12 Oct 1894

1896/97 - Linthouse 4 points 3 March 1897

1903/04 - Albion R - 2 points (for playing inelegible player against Leith on 12 Sep 1903)

1906/07 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points ?

1907/08 - Dumbarton 2 points ?

1922/23 - St Bernard's - 2 points 29 April 1923
Cowdenbeath - 2 Points 29 April 1923
St Johnstone - 2 points 29 April 1923
Clydebank - 2 points 2 May 1923

1924/25 - Dumbarton Harp resigned on ? January 1925 and record expunged
- Brechin city awarded 2 points (when?)
1925/26 - Galston resigned and record expunged after 9 January 1926

1928/29 - Bathgate resigned and record expunged on 12 March 1929

1932/33 - Bo'ness expelled on 12 Nov 1932, Armadale expelled on 3 Dec 1932, both records deleted on 5 Apr 1933

1939-40 - Cowdenbeath closed down on 6 Feb 1940 but their record was allowed to stand

1947/48 - Alloa - 2 points deducted for fielding an inelegible player on 27 Aug 1947
1981/82 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points (when?)

1988/89 - Cowdenbeath - 2 points deducted on 16 Feb 1989
- Queen of the South - 2 points deducted on 16 March 1989

1989/90 - Forfar - 2 points deducted on 16 Nov 1989

1994/95 - Meadowbank - 3 points deducted on 18 Aug 1994 as well as the goals scored and conceded in the game v Brechin played on 13 Aug 1994

1996/97 - Falkirk - 3 points deducted on 19 Dec 1996 and ordered to replay their game v St Mirren from 23 Nov 1996

1999/00 - Hamilton A - 15 points deducted 20 Apr 2000
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Postby nightfire » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:06 pm

Season 1890/91

I may have more info at home . . .

The Scotsman report on Monday 6th October shows the League table with no deductions for Celtic, Cowlairs & Third Lanark.

There is a report in this edition that details the expulsion of Renton. It is possible the points deduction for Celtic & Cowlairs was also decreed at this meeting.

The Scotsman report on Monday 13th October shows the League table with a 4 point deduction for both Celtic & Cowlairs.
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Postby prorege » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:12 am

Cowdenbeath's 1981/2 deduction was for fielding an ineligible player on May 1st - possibly Colin McIntosh? Decision might not have been taken until after the end of the season. I suspect many published league tables for that season are wrong - Rothmans does not show the points deduction.
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Postby BMCCOLL » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:37 pm

nightfire wrote:Season 1890/91

The Scotsman report on Monday 6th October shows the League table with no deductions for Celtic, Cowlairs & Third Lanark.

The Scotsman report on Monday 13th October shows the League table with a 4 point deduction for both Celtic & Cowlairs.


The SDA of 13th Sep 1890 has a table showing Celtic with a 4 point deduction and Cowlairs sitting with -1 point. Another table on 4 Oct shows all the points added back, but this may probably be an error by the compiler.
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Postby nightfire » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:01 am

BMCCOLL wrote:
nightfire wrote:Season 1890/91

The Scotsman report on Monday 6th October shows the League table with no deductions for Celtic, Cowlairs & Third Lanark.

The Scotsman report on Monday 13th October shows the League table with a 4 point deduction for both Celtic & Cowlairs.


The SDA of 13th Sep 1890 has a table showing Celtic with a 4 point deduction and Cowlairs sitting with -1 point. Another table on 4 Oct shows all the points added back, but this may probably be an error by the compiler.


Paul Lunney notes in his book "Celtic: A Complete Record" that Goalkeeper James Bell was the ineligible player that resulted in Celtic being deducted 4 points.

The "Alphabet of Celts" notes that Bell was signed after Celtic's first League game v Renton (who were later expelled from the League) and played in the next game v Hearts and most of the other League games that season.

However, as there had not been a clear 2 weeks between him playing for Celtic and his previous club (Dumbarton) they were deducted 4 points on 4th September 1890 which covered the victories against Hearts & Cambuslang
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Postby LLD » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 am

Meadowbank's 1994-95 deduction, plus a £5,000 fine was as a result of Paul Rutherford playing whilst suspended.

I don't have a specific date for the decision, but the Meadowbank programme dated 20/08/94 doesn't mention it, and the following week's issue (27/08/94) does.
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Postby Scottish » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:07 am

Possibly 18th August (too late for inclusion in the programme for the 20th). There was definitely a League management committee meeting that day as that was when the SFL fined Celtic £100,000 for poaching Tommy Burns as manager.
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Postby BMCCOLL » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:24 pm

It was definitely the 18 August as I had made a note of it against the results grid I was compiling at the time.
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Postby Scottish » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:26 pm

My apologies, Brian. I hadn't noticed you already had the date in your earlier post.
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