Trophy-winning Managers

Scottish Football Answers to Questions

Trophy-winning Managers

Postby Scottish » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:57 am

From Geoff Brown: "I am looking for a list of all the winning managers throughout the history of the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish FA Cup?"

First the caveats: many clubs didn't appoint managers until well into the 20th century and some of those regarded as managers were actually club secretaries, having as much (or as little) influence over selection and transfers as, say, a 21st century Hearts boss!

While I can find some club secretaries well back in the 19th century the earliest I can come across with the title of manager is Willie Maley of Celtic in 1897, followed by William Wilton at Rangers in 1899. As these clubs have won the bulk of the trophies it is possible to compile a reasonably accurate list of managers from 1900 onwards.

Below is a list of successful bosses. Please note the following:

WA Abel of Third Lanark was, I believe, more of a secretary than manager. Willie McCartney died during the 1947-48 season and was succeeded by Hugh Shaw. Graeme Souness left Rangers in 1990-91 with just a few games remaining and was succeeded by Walter Smith. Occasionally Cup-winning teams have changed managers during the season, sometimes before the start of a cup competition, sometimes during it. For simplicity's sake I have listed only the manager in charge at the time of the Cup Final. Finally, I am away from home at the moment and working from computer notes with no access to any books so it is possible I may have made the odd error - I am thinking of Edinburgh club managers in the early 20th century in particular - but I am sure that site regulars will soon pick up on any errors.

League
1900 William Wilton Rangers
1901 William Wilton Rangers
1902 William Wilton Rangers
1903 Dan McMichael Hibernian
1904 Frank Heaven Third Lanark
1905 Willie Maley Celtic
1906 Willie Maley Celtic
1907 Willie Maley Celtic
1908 Willie Maley Celtic
1909 Willie Maley Celtic
1910 Willie Maley Celtic
1911 William Wilton Rangers
1912 William Wilton Rangers
1913 William Wilton Rangers
1914 Willie Maley Celtic
1915 Willie Maley Celtic
1916 Willie Maley Celtic
1917 Willie Maley Celtic
1918 William Wilton Rangers
1919 Willie Maley Celtic
1920 William Wilton Rangers
1921 Bill Struth Rangers
1922 Willie Maley Celtic
1923 Bill Struth Rangers
1924 Bill Struth Rangers
1925 Bill Struth Rangers
1926 Willie Maley Celtic
1927 Bill Struth Rangers
1928 Bill Struth Rangers
1929 Bill Struth Rangers
1930 Bill Struth Rangers
1931 Bill Struth Rangers
1932 John Hunter Motherwell
1933 Bill Struth Rangers
1934 Bill Struth Rangers
1935 Bill Struth Rangers
1936 Willie Maley Celtic
1937 Bill Struth Rangers
1938 Willie Maley Celtic
1939 Bill Struth Rangers
1947 Bill Struth Rangers
1948 Willie McCartney/Hugh Shaw Hibernian
1949 Bill Struth Rangers
1950 Bill Struth Rangers
1951 Hugh Shaw Hibernian
1952 Hugh Shaw Hibernian
1953 Bill Struth Rangers
1954 Jimmy McGrory Celtic
1955 David Halliday Aberdeen
1956 Scot Symon Rangers
1957 Scot Symon Rangers
1958 Tommy Walker Hearts
1959 Scot Symon Rangers
1960 Tommy Walker Hearts
1961 Scot Symon Rangers
1962 Bob Shankly Dundee
1963 Scot Symon Rangers
1964 Scot Symon Rangers
1965 Willie Waddell Kilmarnock
1966 Jock Stein Celtic
1967 Jock Stein Celtic
1968 Jock Stein Celtic
1969 Jock Stein Celtic
1970 Jock Stein Celtic
1971 Jock Stein Celtic
1972 Jock Stein Celtic
1973 Jock Stein Celtic
1974 Jock Stein Celtic
1975 Jock Wallace Rangers
1976 Jock Wallace Rangers
1977 Jock Stein Celtic
1978 Jock Wallace Rangers
1979 Billy McNeill Celtic
1980 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1981 Billy McNeill Celtic
1982 Billy McNeill Celtic
1983 Jim McLean Dundee United
1984 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1985 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1986 David Hay Celtic
1987 Graeme Souness Rangers
1988 Billy McNeill Celtic
1989 Graeme Souness Rangers
1990 Graeme Souness Rangers
1991 Graeme Souness/Walter Smith Rangers
1992 Walter Smith Rangers
1993 Walter Smith Rangers
1994 Walter Smith Rangers
1995 Walter Smith Rangers
1996 Walter Smith Rangers
1997 Walter Smith Rangers
1998 Wim Jansen Celtic
1999 Dick Advocaat Rangers
2000 Dick Advocaat Rangers
2001 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2002 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2003 Alex McLeish Rangers
2004 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2005 Alex McLeish Rangers
2006 Gordon Strachan Celtic
2007 Gordon Strachan Celtic
2008 Gordon Strachan Celtic

Scottish Cup
1900 Willie Maley Celtic
1901 Peter Fairley Hearts
1902 Dan McMichael Hibernian
1903 William Wilton Rangers
1904 Willie Maley Celtic
1905 Frank Heaven Third Lanark
1906 William Waugh Hearts
1907 Willie Maley Celtic
1908 Willie Maley Celtic
1909 Cup withheld
1910 John Fraser Dundee
1911 Willie Maley Celtic
1912 Willie Maley Celtic
1913 Possibly William Nicol Falkirk
1914 Willie Maley Celtic
1920 Hugh Spence Kilmarnock
1921 George Easton Partick Thistle
1922 Bob Cochrane Morton
1923 Willie Maley Celtic
1924 William Orr Airdrieonians
1925 Willie Maley Celtic
1926 John Cochran St Mirren
1927 Willie Maley Celtic
1928 Bill Struth Rangers
1929 Hugh Spence Kilmarnock
1930 Bill Struth Rangers
1931 Willie Maley Celtic
1932 Bill Struth Rangers
1933 Willie Maley Celtic
1934 Bill Struth Rangers
1935 Bill Struth Rangers
1936 Bill Struth Rangers
1937 Willie Maley Celtic
1938 David McLean East Fife
1939 Pat Travers Clyde
1947 David Halliday Aberdeen
1948 Bill Struth Rangers
1949 Bill Struth Rangers
1950 Bill Struth Rangers
1951 Jimmy McGrory Celtic
1952 George Stevenson Motherwell
1953 Bill Struth Rangers
1954 Jimmy McGrory Celtic
1955 Pat Travers Clyde
1956 Tommy Walker Hearts
1957 Reggie Smith Falkirk
1958 Johnny Haddow Clyde
1959 Willie Reid St Mirren
1960 Scot Symon Rangers
1961 Jock Stein Dunfermline
1962 Scot Symon Rangers
1963 Scot Symon Rangers
1964 Scot Symon Rangers
1965 Jock Stein Celtic
1966 Scot Symon Rangers
1967 Jock Stein Celtic
1968 George Farm Dunfermline
1969 Jock Stein Celtic
1970 Eddie Turnbull Aberdeen
1971 Jock Stein Celtic
1972 Jock Stein Celtic
1973 Jock Wallace Rangers
1974 Jock Stein Celtic
1975 Jock Stein Celtic
1976 Jock Wallace Rangers
1977 Jock Stein Celtic
1978 Jock Wallace Rangers
1979 John Greig Rangers
1980 Billy McNeill Celtic
1981 John Greig Rangers
1982 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1983 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1984 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1985 David Hay Celtic
1986 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1987 Alex Smith St Mirren
1988 Billy McNeill Celtic
1989 Billy McNeill Celtic
1990 Alex Smith Aberdeen
1991 Tommy McLean Motherwell
1992 Walter Smith Rangers
1993 Walter Smith Rangers
1994 Ivan Golac Dundee United
1995 Tommy Burns Celtic
1996 Walter Smith Rangers
1997 Bobby Williamson Kilmarnock
1998 Jim Jefferies Hearts
1999 Dick Advocaat Rangers
2000 Dick Advocaat Rangers
2001 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2002 Alex McLeish Rangers
2003 Alex McLeish Rangers
2004 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2005 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2006 Valdas Ivanauskas Hearts
2007 Gordon Strachan Celtic
2008 Walter Smith Rangers

League Cup
1947 Bill Struth Rangers
1948 Scot Symon East Fife
1949 Bill Struth Rangers
1950 Scot Symon East Fife
1951 George Stevenson Motherwell
1952 George Anderson Dundee
1953 George Anderson Dundee
1954 Jerry Dawson East Fife
1955 Tommy Walker Hearts
1956 Dave Shaw Aberdeen
1957 Jimmy McGrory Celtic
1958 Jimmy McGrory Celtic
1959 Tommy Walker Hearts
1960 Tommy Walker Hearts
1961 Scot Symon Rangers
1962 Scot Symon Rangers
1963 Tommy Walker Hearts
1964 Scot Symon Rangers
1965 Scot Symon Rangers
1966 Jock Stein Celtic
1967 Jock Stein Celtic
1968 Jock Stein Celtic
1969 Jock Stein Celtic
1970 Jock Stein Celtic
1971 Willie Waddell Rangers
1972 Davie McParland Partick Thistle
1973 Eddie Turnbull Hibernian
1974 Davie White Dundee
1975 Jock Stein Celtic
1976 Jock Wallace Rangers
1977 Ally McLeod Aberdeen
1978 Jock Wallace Rangers
1979 John Greig Rangers
1980 Jim McLean Dundee United
1981 Jim McLean Dundee United
1982 John Greig Rangers
1983 Billy McNeill Celtic
1984 Jock Wallace Rangers
1985 Jock Wallace Rangers
1986 Alex Ferguson Aberdeen
1987 Graeme Souness Rangers
1988 Graeme Souness Rangers
1989 Graeme Souness Rangers
1990 Alex Smith Aberdeen
1991 Graeme Souness Rangers
1992 Alex Miller Hibernian
1993 Walter Smith Rangers
1994 Walter Smith Rangers
1995 Jimmy Nicholl Raith Rovers
1996 Roy Aitken Aberdeen
1997 Walter Smith Rangers
1998 Wim Jansen Celtic
1999 Dick Advocaat Rangers
2000 Kenny Dalglish Celtic
2001 Martin O’Neill Celtic
2002 Alex McLeish Rangers
2003 Alex McLeish Rangers
2004 David Hay Livingston
2005 Alex McLeish Rangers
2006 Gordon Strachan Celtic
2007 John Collins Hibernian
2008 Walter Smith Rangers
Last edited by Scottish on Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scottish » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:09 am

Totals for trophy-winning managers

From 1899-1900 onwards

League Championship

18 Bill Struth
15 Willie Maley
10 Jock Stein
8 William Wilton
7 Walter Smith*
6 Scot Symon
4 Billy McNeill
4 Graeme Souness*
3 Hugh Shaw*
3 Jock Wallace
3 Alex Ferguson
3 Martin O’Neill
3 Gordon Strachan
2 Tommy Walker
2 Dick Advocaat
2 Alex McLeish
1 Dan McMichael
1 Frank Heaven
1 John Hunter
1 Willie McCartney*
1 Jimmy McGrory
1 David Halliday
1 Bob Shankly
1 Willie Waddell
1 Jim McLean
1 David Hay
1 Wim Jansen

* includes part of season when two managers at club.

Scottish Cup

13 Willie Maley
10 Bill Struth
9 Jock Stein
5 Scot Symon
4 Alex Ferguson
4 Walter Smith
3 Jock Wallace
3 Billy McNeill
3 Martin O’Neill
2 Hugh Spence
2 Pat Travers
2 Jimmy McGrory
2 John Greig
2 Alex Smith
2 Dick Advocaat
2 Alex McLeish
1 Peter Fairley
1 Dan McMichael
1 William Wilton
1 Frank Heaven
1 William Waugh
1 John Fraser
1 William Nicol
1 George Easton
1 Bob Cochrane
1 William Orr
1 John Cochran
1 David McLean
1 David Halliday
1 George Stevenson
1 Tommy Walker
1 Reggie Smith
1 Johnny Haddow
1 Willie Reid
1 George Farm
1 Eddie Turnbull
1 David Hay
1 Tommy McLean
1 Ivan Golac
1 Tommy Burns
1 Bobby Williamson
1 Jim Jefferies
1 Valdas Ivanauskas
1 Gordon Strachan


League Cup

6 Scot Symon
6 Jock Stein
4 Tommy Walker
4 Jock Wallace
4 Graeme Souness
4 Walter Smith
3 Alex McLeish
2 Bill Struth
2 George Anderson
2 Jimmy McGrory
2 John Greig
2 Jim McLean
1 George Stevenson
1 Jerry Dawson
1 Dave Shaw
1 Willie Waddell
1 Davie McPartland
1 Eddie Turnbull
1 Davie White
1 Ally McLeod
1 Billy McNeill
1 Alex Ferguson
1 Alex Smith
1 Alex Miller
1 Jimmy Nicholl
1 Roy Aitken
1 Wim Jansen
1 Dick Advocaat
1 Kenny Dalglish
1 Martin O’Neill
1 David Hay
1 Gordon Strachan
1 John Collins

OVERALL

30 Bill Struth

28 Willie Maley

25 Jock Stein

17 Scot Symon

15 Walter Smith*

10 Jock Wallace

9 William Wilton

8 Billy McNeill, Graeme Souness*, Alex Ferguson

7 Martin O’Neill, Tommy Walker, Alex McLeish

5 Gordon Strachan, Dick Advocaat, Jimmy McGrory

4 John Greig

3 Hugh Shaw*, David Hay, Jim McLean, Alex Smith

2 Dan McMichael, Frank Heaven, David Halliday, Willie Waddell,
Wim Jansen, Hugh Spence, Pat Travers, George Stevenson,
Eddie Turnbull, George Anderson

1 John Hunter, Willie McCartney*, Bob Shankly, Peter Fairley,
William Waugh, John Fraser, William Nicol, George Easton,
Bob Cochrane, William Orr, John Cochran, David McLean,
Reggie Smith, Johnny Haddow, Willie Reid, George Farm,
Tommy McLean, Ivan Golac, Tommy Burns, Bobby Williamson,
Jim Jefferies, Valdas Ivanauskas, Jerry Dawson, Dave Shaw,
Davie McPartland, Davie White, Ally McLeod, Alex Miller,
Jimmy Nicholl, Roy Aitken, Kenny Dalglish, John Collins

NOTE: As mentioned in the first post Willie Maley was appointed Celtic manager in 1897. As Celtic won the League in 1898 and Cup in 1899 then his total comes to 30, same as Struth, which should avoid any OF tit-for-tattery. Stein, Waddell & Ferguson all won European trophies too but if I add them then I'd also have to add trophies won elsewhere, chiefly in England where many of the above were also successful.
Last edited by Scottish on Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Scottish » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:55 am

Most successful overall: Willie Maley/Bill Struth

Most successful post-war: Jock Stein

Most successful post-war Rangers: Debatable. Scot Symon won fifteen of his seventeen trophies while with Rangers. Walter Smith currently has fifteen but this includes the 1990-91 league title when he was in charge for only a few games at the end of the season.

Most successful currently in management: Walter Smith

Most successful non-OF: Alex Ferguson

Most successful non-British: Dick Advocaat

Longest between first and last success: Willie Maley (1898, 1938)

Bosses who managed two different clubs to trophy success:
Jock Stein, Scot Symon, David Hay, Alex Smith, Willie Waddell, Eddie Turnbull

Non-Scottish trophy-winning bosses
Willie Maley (IRE), Martin O'Neill (NI), Dick Advocaat (HOL), Frank Heaven (ENG), Wim Jansen (HOL), Reggie Smith (ENG), Ivan Golac (YUG), Valdas Ivanauskas (LITH), Jimmy Nicholl (NI)

Managers who won trophies AFTER leaving the OF:
David Hay, Davie White

Managers who won European trophies with Scottish clubs:
Jock Stein, Willie Waddell, Alex Ferguson

Managers who won European trophies with non-Scottish clubs:
Alex Ferguson, Dick Advocaat
Last edited by Scottish on Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scottish » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:29 am

Looking at trophies won by managers of Scottish clubs elsewhere I can come up with the following (ignoring competitions such as 'Super Cups' with only two entrants and trophies won where manager held title such as 'technical director' and didn't hold primary responsibility for team selection).

Alex Ferguson 21 (10 English championships, 5 FA Cup, 2 FL Cup, 2 European Cup, 1 ECWC, 1 World club championship)

Kenny Dalglish 7 (4 English championships, 2 FA Cup, 1 FL Cup)

Dick Advocaat 4 (Dutch championship, Russian championship, Dutch Cup, UEFA Cup)

Graeme Souness 3 (FA Cup, FL Cup, Turkish Cup)

Johnny Cochrane 2 (English Championship, FA Cup)

Wim Jansen 2 (2 Dutch Cup)

Martin O'Neill 2 (2 FL Cup)

By my calculations Ferguson has won 30 (the 21 here plus 8 domestic and 1 ECWC with Aberdeen), the same number as Maley and Struth. One more would make him unarguably the most successful Scottish manager of all time, a title which surely only the most blinkered would deny he earned some time ago.

If I get the chance I'll update next with major trophies won by Scottish managers in England.
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Postby Scottish » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:35 am

Amazing what you can dredge up at this hour of the night when there's a big derby cup tie the next day and you can't sleep. A lot of it is thanks to belatedly coming across the League Managers site. Pity there's no Scottish equivalent.

I don't claim this list to be definitive but as best as I can here are the Scots who have won major trophies in England. Some managers have been in charge of more clubs than mentioned here (Souness, Graham e.g.) but I have only listed the clubs they have won major trophies with.

Alex Ferguson (Man Utd) 17 (10 Lge, 5 FAC, 2 FLC)

George Ramsay (Aston Villa) 12 (6 Lge, 6 FAC)

Matt Busby (Man Utd) 7 (5 Lge, 2 FAC)

Kenny Dalglish (Liverpool, Blackburn Rovers) 7 (4 Lge, 2 FAC, 1 FLC)

George Graham (Arsenal, Spurs) 6 (2 Lge, 1 FAC, 3 FLC)

Tom Mitchell (Blackburn Rovers) 5 (5 FAC)

Bill Shankly (Liverpool) 5 (3 Lge, 2 FAC)

Johnny Cochrane (Sunderland) 2 (1 Lge, 1 FAC)

Tommy Docherty (Man Utd, Chelsea) 2 (1 FAC, 1 FLC)

Graeme Souness (Liverpool, Blackburn Rovers) 2 (1 FAC, 1 FLC)

The following have all won one major trophy

League
Dave Mackay (Derby County)
Alex Mackie (Sunderland)
Matt McQueen (Liverpool)

FA Cup
John Cameron (Spurs)
Andy Cunningham (Newcastle Utd)
Dougie Livingstone (Newcastle Utd)
Les McDowall (Man City)
Peter McWilliam (Spurs)
Peter O'Rourke (Bradford City)

League Cup
Matt Gillies (Leicester City)

There's also a case for including trophy-winners with Scottish parentage like FA Cup Winners Tom Maley (Man City) & Stuart McMillan (Derby County).

Scots who have managed clubs to European success

Alex Ferguson (Aberdeen, Man Utd) 4 (2 ECC/CL, 2 ECWC)

ECC/CL winners
Matt Busby (Man Utd)
Jock Stein (Celtic)

ECWC winners
George Graham (Arsenal)
Willie Waddell (Rangers)

UEFA Cup winners
Bill Shankly (Liverpool)

Ideally, this should expand to include Scots who have won major trophies in other countries but I fear that might not be possible. Two reasons for this: very difficult if not impossible to compile accurate records from the pre-war era and the question of whether or not certain 'equivalent' successes are all they appear to be. For instance there's no doubt in my mind that Dave Mackay's two Egyptian titles with Zamalek are as significant as winning the league in most European countries but are the six Kuwaiti titles and two cups he also won really of a similar standard?
Last edited by Scottish on Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bobby s » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:41 am

I think we might have had the debate previously but I think that John McCartney [Willie's father?] isn't listed in any Hibs history book that I've seen. Dan McMichael is normally credited.

I'll double check.
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Postby Townfan » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:04 pm

Was Willie Waddell not Rangers manager when they won the ECWC in 1972? I think he handed over to Jock Wallace a few weeks after the final.
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Postby Scottish » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:06 am

bobby s wrote:I think we might have had the debate previously but I think that John McCartney [Willie's father?] isn't listed in any Hibs history book that I've seen. Dan McMichael is normally credited.

I'll double check.


We have but I forget the outcome - if any. That I haven't changed McCartney's details suggests it was unresolved. I seem to recall something about there being two John McCartneys, both active in management around the same time.
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Postby Scottish » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:14 am

Townfan wrote:Was Willie Waddell not Rangers manager when they won the ECWC in 1972? I think he handed over to Jock Wallace a few weeks after the final.


You're right. The Waddell/Wallace combination was something akin to Mercer/Allison at Man City at the same time. I used to have Waddell as the 'official' manager at the time of the ECWC but changed it some time ago, I think, because the balance of the evidence suggested Wallace was responsible for selection. Different histories offer conflicting accounts. Back in 1994 when writing about the ECWC triumph I effectively wimped out and used the term 'management combination.'

But I've had a good delve through the records tonight and several sources confirm that Wallace took over as team manager with Waddell moving 'upstairs' on June 7th 1972.

I'll change the relevant details on this thread. Thanks.
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Postby Gunboat Briggs » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:49 am

scottish wrote:Non-Scottish trophy-winning bosses
Willie Maley (IRE), Martin O'Neill (NI), Dick Advocaat (HOL), Frank Heaven (ENG), Wim Jansen (HOL), Reggie Smith (ENG), Ivan Golac (YUG), Valdas Ivanauskas (LITH), Jimmy Nicholl (NI)


Maley was born in Ireland but came to Scotland as a child, and was indeed capped by Scotland. Debatable, therefore, if he should be included here.
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Postby Scottish » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:31 pm

Gunboat Briggs wrote:Maley was born in Ireland but came to Scotland as a child, and was indeed capped by Scotland. Debatable, therefore, if he should be included here.


I was concerned lest the green-and-white hordes thought I was in the heritage denial business if I cited Maley(and brother Tom) as Scots, not Irish.

It raises an interesting point re nationality though. Rules were a bit more lax in the early days of organised football but not long after Maley's time, players like Jocky Simpson and, later, Bob Ferrier were ineligible for Scotland. Post-war, Joe Baker had no option but to play for England and his brother Gerry for the USA. Yet Bob Wilson, only fifteen months younger than Joe Baker, was able to play for Scotland when the rules on eligibility changed.

Had they stayed the same then Terry Butcher might have skippered Singapore and the Davis Cup could have had the intriguing doubles pairing of Boris Becker and John McEnroe!

On the plus side the Indian-born Cliff Richard would surely have been ineligible for the Eurovision Song Contest.
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Postby bobby s » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:49 pm

I've checked three Hibs history books - 100 years of Hibs, Lugton volume ii and Mackay [the third], and all state Dan McMichael as Hibs manager in 1902 & 1903.

Lugton lists all the office bearers season by season for that period and John McCartney is never mentioned. I'd love to know where the origins of this come from.
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Postby Scottish » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:04 pm

Duly edited Bobby - and changed on my originals as well.
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Postby nightfire » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:26 pm

scottish wrote:
Gunboat Briggs wrote:Maley was born in Ireland but came to Scotland as a child, and was indeed capped by Scotland. Debatable, therefore, if he should be included here.


I was concerned lest the green-and-white hordes thought I was in the heritage denial business if I cited Maley(and brother Tom) as Scots, not Irish.
It raises an interesting point re nationality though. Rules were a bit more lax in the early days of organised football but not long after Maley's time, players like Jocky Simpson and, later, Bob Ferrier were ineligible for Scotland. Post-war, Joe Baker had no option but to play for England and his brother Gerry for the USA. Yet Bob Wilson, only fifteen months younger than Joe Baker, was able to play for Scotland when the rules on eligibility changed.

Had they stayed the same then Terry Butcher might have skippered Singapore and the Davis Cup could have had the intriguing doubles pairing of Boris Becker and John McEnroe!

On the plus side the Indian-born Cliff Richard would surely have been ineligible for the Eurovision Song Contest.


Just a wee aside - Tom Maley was actually born in Portsmouth :D
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Postby Gunboat Briggs » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:16 am

scottish wrote:On the plus side the Indian-born Cliff Richard would surely have been ineligible for the Eurovision Song Contest.


Au contraire. It is the nationality of the writer(s) which is relevant in Eurovision, hence Katrina of Katrina and the Waves (American) and Gina G (Australian) representing the UK, and Céline Dion (Canadian) representing Switzerland!

Where the hell is this thread going now???
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