Celtic avoid relegation

The place to discuss Scottish football
Post Reply
wee mochan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:46 am
Contact:

Celtic avoid relegation

Post by wee mochan » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:49 am

Can anyone tell me what year Celtic had to beat Dundee to avoid relegation?

sureitsza
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:13 pm
Contact:

Post by sureitsza » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:23 am

Season 1947-48

17th April 1948

Dundee 2 Celtic 3

Team line-ups
Dundee Brown, Follon, Irvine, Gallacher, Gray, Boyd, Gunn, Pattillo, Stewart, Ewen, Mackay

Celtic Miller, Hogg, Mallan, Evans, Corbett, McAuley, Weir, McPhail, Lavery, Gallacher, Paton

Goalscorers
Dundee Ewen 44, Mackay 60
Celtic Weir 14, 67, 88

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:59 pm

Ther's a bit of a myth that has grown up around this game over the years - similar to the 'Denis Law relegated Man Utd' story that has done the rounds for a while. While it is true that a Celtic victory meant they were free from any THREAT of relegation they didn't HAVE to win to avoid the drop.

Queen's Park were already relegated. Celtic had 23 points and this was their final match. Below them were Queen of the South, also on on 23 with one game left but with a worse goal average, and Airdrieonians on 21 with two to play. Above Celtic but still under threat were Hearts on 23 with three to play and Morton on 24 with one game left.

Celtic's victory gave them 25. While Airdrie could still theoretically catch them they would have needed to rack up seventeen goals without loss in their last two games to overtake Celtic on goal average. Unlikely but not impossible.

What guaranteed Celtic's safety was that Morton and QoS's last match was against each other. It was impossible for both of those clubs to reach 25.

As it transpired Celtic finished in 12th place four points clear of the drop and they could have lost at Dundee and still avoided relegation.

wee mochan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:46 am
Contact:

Celtic avoid relegation

Post by wee mochan » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:35 pm

Thanks for the info. The reason I had to find out is thay my Dad died last week and, having come up from England when he was 12, this was the first Celtic game he saw and he was fanatical about Celtic from that day, as are my 3 brothers and 3 sisters and me. I had to find this information for the Eulogy I will give at his funeral on Tuesday.
Thanks again

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:04 am

Sorry to hear that and hope this information will be of some use and comfort to you and your family.

MadMac
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:27 pm
Contact:

Post by MadMac » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:16 pm

scottish wrote:the 'Denis Law relegated Man Utd' story that has done the rounds for a while.
If anyone ever compiles a list of football "Urban Myths", that should be near the top. The truth, of course, was that they could have won that day and also in their final game at Stoke which would have resulted in them finishing 20th above Southampton on goal average - however, they'd still have been relegated as it was the first season of "three down".

Insertnamehere
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:32 pm
Location: Barrhead
Contact:

Post by Insertnamehere » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:43 am

MadMac wrote:
scottish wrote:the 'Denis Law relegated Man Utd' story that has done the rounds for a while.
If anyone ever compiles a list of football "Urban Myths", that should be near the top. The truth, of course, was that they could have won that day and also in their final game at Stoke which would have resulted in them finishing 20th above Southampton on goal average - however, they'd still have been relegated as it was the first season of "three down".
I sorry but facts dont do it for me I still love the thought that he did put them down so im believing it! :D

LEATHERSTOCKING
Posts: 1638
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:11 pm
Contact:

Post by LEATHERSTOCKING » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:24 pm

Another urban myth is that Rangers & Celtic are world class.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:15 am

The one I like is "Nobody could do a better job right now than Jim Jefferies & Billy Brown."

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:22 am

Yet another myth is given legs by Hugh McDonald in The Herald when, in an otherwise excellent article and interview with Davie White, McDonald claims that defeat to Aberdeen in the final game of the 1967-68 season resulted in "losing one game and consequently a title."

The fact is that all Celtic had to do to win the league was to match Rangers result in their last match. Defeat took the pressure off but had Rangers won then a Celtic victory in their last game at Dunfermline would have won the league. Had Rangers drawn then a draw would have been good enough for Celtic too, so superior was their goal average. Defeat meant Celtic could have lost by double figures and still taken the flag.

Worse though are the factual inaccuracies concerning Rangers European record under White. McDonald claims they played three times in the Fairs Cup under White whereas it was actually twice. The third campaign was in the Cup-Winners Cup. McDonald repeats the claim that Rangers lost to Gornik in the Fairs Cup on another page as well.

But better than that is the suggestion that Gornik were beaten in the final by Man Utd. Not only the wrong competition but the wrong club. Gornik did reach the final of the Cup-Winners Cup in 1970 where they lost to Man CITY.

And while not an inaccuracy as such, asking if White might have kept his job had Celtic lost rather than won the toss of a coin v Benfica the same night as Rangers were beaten by Gornik is pure conjecture without even the slightest hint of evidence to back it up.

lbb
Posts: 1316
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am
Contact:

Post by lbb » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:17 am

I read that article. I think McDonald has been on the moonshine. There's another article in The Herald today but this basically just rambles on about how great a manager Jock Stein was.

Davie White gave a couple of interesting interviews on Rangers TV a couple of months ago. You wouldn't have thought that 40 years after the event it would still bother someone but White still found it very difficult to talk about the day he was sacked and got quite emotional about it. I don't think he could even bring himself to mention Willie Waddell's name. Still, seemed a nice guy and seems to have been desperately unlucky not to have at least won something at Rangers.

Scottish
Site Admin
Posts: 7665
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:51 pm
Contact:

Post by Scottish » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:27 am

lbb wrote: There's another article in The Herald today but this basically just rambles on about how great a manager Jock Stein was.
More selective memory in that article - "His (Colin Stein's) suspension at the end of the season severely hit Rangers title hopes."

Up to a point. Rangers were three points behind with seven to play when Stein was suspended and never topped the table once that season. Stein had also received a previous suspension but in those days bans were for periods of time not matches so even though he had been suspended for 28 days he missed just one league match thanks to postponements.

Given that in his last game before the ban Stein missed a penalty at Airdrie in a game Rangers lost it would be stretching credulity to think that they would have won the title had Stein been available.

exile
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:50 pm
Contact:

Celtic and Relegation

Post by exile » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:17 pm

In season 1951-2 Celtic didn't escape the threat of relegation until winning their 2nd last game.

On 15th March they lost 3-1 to St Mirren leaving this situation

Celtic played 27 points 23
Airdrie 27 22
Morton 27 21
Thirds 25 21
Stirling 29 14

Celtic's next game was against East Fife, then 3rd in the table, a game they could not have been confident of winning.

They did win, however Airdrie and Morton also won, whilst Thirds drew.

Celtic had now overtaken St Mirren who had completed their programme and had a worse goal average. So, only huge defeats in their last 2 games could have sent Celtic down, and in the event they got 3 points from their last 2 games and finished in the top half of the table.

In 1953 Celtic had 26 points from 27 games on 4th April after being stuffed 4-0 by Dundee and were in a precarious position in a pack of clubs in mid table. In the event Motherwell went down with 25 points with Celtic 4 points clear of the drop in 8th place.

In fact in 1951 Celtic also didn't become mathematically safe until 21st April when a number of teams below them lost on a day when Celtic were not playing.

1948 was unique in that at the kick off of their last game they were not officially safe from relegation.

The 16 team league format was very competitive and Hearts and Aberdeen also had some close shaves in this period. Only when the league expanded to 18 did the middling teams usually have something of a cushion between them and the drop. Also in the late 50s and early 60s, whilst Celtic were far from successful, they were somewhat better than they had been in in the period leading up to the Coronation Cup win of 1953 and the Stein "double" side of the following season.

In 1978 Ayr United's 5-2 defeat by Rangers on 8th April doomed them to relegation - and amongst the relieved teams above them were Celtic. The fact that Ayr and Clydebank were so far behind the rest meant that Celtic, despite an awful season, were not in any real danger of going down even after a defeat by Motherwell on 22nd March left them in 8th place with 11 games to play.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests