1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

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Sat31March1928
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1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by Sat31March1928 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:38 pm

Embedded in the Story of Alan Anderson getting a cap


https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ ... it-2481493

Five of the fixtures have been upgraded to full international status to earn him a retrospective cap from the Scottish Football Association more than five decades later.

His five appearances came in a 2-1 win against Israel in Tel Aviv, three victories over Australia in Sydney [1-0], Adelaide [2-1] and Melbourne [2-0], plus a 7-2 rout of Canada in Winnipeg.

Anyone else heard about the status of the games?
Jackson; James; Jackson; James; Jackson

EastJunior
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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by EastJunior » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:13 am

I came on to ask exactly the same question. Journalistic licence perhaps?

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by ScottishFA » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:33 am

Got to be a journalistic error.

The story on Hearts website says the games 'would today be recognized as Full Internationals' but clearly were not. The Canada game wasn't even against the Canadian national team, but their Olympic amateur eleven.

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article ... n-anderson

I think the 'award' of a cap is more likely just a nice gesture by the SFA for an old player.

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by EastJunior » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:24 am

Australia already class the three Scotland games as A Internationals.

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:48 am

The presentation of 1967 World Tour caps to Sir Alex Ferguson and the sons of Alan Anderson and Harry Hood at half-time in the match against Israel was a wonderful gesture. However, it does bring up, yet again, the status of some of the matches on the tour.

1) My understanding of the award of these special caps is that they were members of the touring party that had not won or went on to win a Scotland cap in a recognised/official full international. This means that they are not being presented to the capped members of the party. Is that correct? Does anyone know?

2) The SFA press release says:

“On further investigation, the matches against Australia, Canada and Australia have now been deemed to be full international matches.”

a) “deemed” by whom? Has that SFA decided that these matches are worthy of being awarded a cap or have the matches now been officially upgraded to Official Internationals?

b) There were three matches played against Australia. Have all three been recognised or just two as suggested by the press release?

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by ScottishFA » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:49 am

Somehow it does seem the SFA have taken a decision, but how they arrived at it and who made the decision is still to be explained.

The typo in the press release certainly doesn't help, but I assume it should have read 'Israel, Australia and Canada'. If that is the case, nobody told the programme editor, who happens to be the SFA's communications manager, as the 1967 game against Israel was described as unofficial and 'non-cap' in Saturday's programme! They also don't seem to have informed our opponents, or FIFA.

The SFA made it abundantly clear at the time, before the tour started, that this was not a full international squad but a touring party.

It all seems to be a ploy to give Alex Ferguson a present and get him to Hampden, but I really don't think they have thought this through or done any kind of serious investigation.

For example, the match against Canada was not against a full national team - it was the Canada amateur team, who were in Winnipeg to prepare to the Pan American Games. Even the competitive matches during the Games are not considered full internationals by Canada, far less the warm-up friendly against the Scots.

If the Israel and three Australia games are accepted (and both countries do consider the games as full internationals) then it takes Willie Morgan up to 25 caps - so he will be due a silver medal.

Hopefully we will get further clarification soon.

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:23 pm

Thanks, Andy.

The five players who played in at least one of the five matches against Israel, Australia (3) and Canada but did not win a full cap were:

Alan Anderson (Heart of Midlothian) – 5 matches - Israel, Australia (3) & Canada
Alex Ferguson (Dunfermline Athletic) – 4 matches - Israel & Australia (3)
Jim Townsend (Heart of Midlothian) – 4 matches - Australia (3) & Canada
Harry Hood (Clyde) – 3 matches - Israel, Australia (1) & Canada
Harry Thomson (Burnley) – 2 matches - Israel & Australia (1)
Hugh Tinney (Bury) 2 matches - Australia (1) & Canada

If the matches against Australia are declared full official internationals it will give rise to a good quiz question:

"Who were Scotland’s opponents in two full internationals where 16 players on the pitch at the same time were born in Scotland?"

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Re: 1967 Oceanic Tour 5 games updated to Full Internationals

Post by bluedragon » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:56 am

Gabe and I have identified 144 unofficial matches played by a Scotland XI selected by the SFA.

75 of those matches do not count as “official internationals” either because the opposition was not a national side or if it was then the matches are not considered “official” for other reasons, i.e. war-time internationals.

Fund raisers (non-war-time) 6
Victory Internationals World War 1 4
Victory Internationals World War 2 3
War-time internationals World War 1 1
War-time internationals World War 2 17
Warm-up or trial matches 19
UK forces teams 20
Players' testimonial matches 4
SFL centenary match 1
Total 75

To add to that we have 4 matches identified as “unofficial internationals” and they appear to meet the definition:

19 September 1888 v Canada - This was a Canadian team drawn from players in the wider Toronto area.

3 October 1891 v Canadian-American XI - This was a Canadian team from the Western Football Association but players from New England were added to the touring party.

28 May 1929 v East Norway XI - This was not a full representative Norway XI.

24 May 1959 v Jutland - This was not a full representative Denmark XI.

The remaining 65 matches were played on 5 SFA tours (1927, 1935, 1939, 1949 & 1967). If a retrospective look at these games is undertaken it would give another 7 matches that could possibly be re-considered as full internationals.

19 June 1949 v USA - I understand that the United States Soccer Federation considers this a full international match. Four of the players were in the USA 15-man squad for the 1949 North American Confederation Cup in September 1949 that served as a qualification group for the 1950 World Cup.

16 May 1967 v Israel - This is one of the matches that the SFA appear to be reconsidering its status.

25 May 1967 v Hong Kong - Hong Kong were members of FIFA and although they did not play in the World Cup qualifying tournament at that time they did play in the Asian Cup. If the SFA are re-considering other matches on this tour should this one not be included too?

28 May 1967 v Australia - This is one of the matches that the SFA appear to be reconsidering its status.

31 May 1967 v Australia - This is one of the matches that the SFA appear to be reconsidering its status.

3 June 1967 v Australia - This is one of the matches that the SFA appear to be reconsidering its status.

13 June 1967 v Canada Olympic - As Andy has already noted the Canadian team was preparing to play later in the month in the qualifying competition for the 1968 Olympic Games (North & Central America Group 2) and in the Pan American Games to be hosted by Winnipeg in July/August. Although the SFA appears to be re-considering the status of the match, the Canadians do not consider the Pan-American Games matches as full internationals.

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