Player enquiry

[Alan McCabe]

Does anyone have any information on a player called James (possibly John?) Christie who played in the mid 1880s.

He is reported as being 'late of Rangers' and 'late of Bolton Wanderers' in various mentions in 1884. At that point he played for Yoker and was reportedly involved in attempting to lure some Dumbarton players south of the border.

I visited Dumbarton Library a few days back and he certainly played for Yoker in its Scottish Cup Round 3 defeat to Vale of Leven.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to trace a 'crack' Yoker player who played against Tayavalla in the previous round of the national cup.

[ScottishFA]

John Christie played for Rangers on a fairly regular basis 1879 to 1882 then went to Bolton.

I can't see any contemporary evidence for 'John' but he is named on several Rangers websites.

[bluedragon]

According to the great Fitbastats website John Christie made 7 appearances (2 goals) in cup competitions for Rangers and they were in the following seasons:
1883-84 1
1882-83 2
1881-82 3 (1 goal)
1880-81 1 (1 goal)

He was definitely John Christie as the Bolton Evening News (Saturday 7 July 1883) reported that rumours that the footballer had drowned in the Clyde in a shipping accident were incorrect. The fatality was a James Christie. The newspaper confirmed that the footballer was John Christie who lived at 227 Berkley Street, Dumbarton Road, Glasgow. The newspaper also referred to John Christie as “formerly one of the Wanderers’ forwards” and as he was playing for the club later on it suggests he had more than one spell at Bolton. Another newspaper report says that after he hung up his boots he remained at Bolton Wanderers in an administrative capacity.

He appears to have first arrived in Bolton in late December 1881/early January 1882 because he had not been in Bolton long enough to qualify to play in a Lancashire Cup tie on 21 January 1982. He had last played for Rangers on 24 December 1881 in a Scottish Cup replay.

He joined Bolton Wanderers at a time when the club and some of its Lancashire neighbours were involved in a dispute with the Football Association over signing Scottish players as professionals.

[Alan McCabe]

Thanks for the information.

My interest stems from an anecdotal mention in the Falkirk Herald in 1928.

Whilst looking for details on Camelon Juniors matches in the intermediate era, a story centred on the villages first football club, Tayavalla.

On 4 October 1884 the club travelled to play Yoker in a second round tie of the Scottish Cup having eliminated Stenhousemuir in the opening round.

According to the article, Yoker conscripted a 'crack player' for the occasion who apparently played for one of the leading Glasgow clubs. He is reported to have netted all the goals in the subsequent 17-0 annihilation!

Now, and this is a big if, if that was the case then I think it would be a record for senior football.

Having scoured newspapers from around the time, the aforementioned Mr Christie fits the description most aptly. His previous spell with Rangers ties in with the mention of a big club near Yoker while a spell at Bolton would almost certainly have marked him as a player of some repute.

I know it's likely never to be proven, but I would guess Christie was the mystery marksman who maybe holds a world record?

Too bad that we will never know.

[bluedragon]

A little more on John Christie….

He played cup and friendly matches for Rangers in three seasons (1880-81,1881-82 & 1883-84). The 1882-83 season appears to have been spent at Bolton Wanderers.

His first recorded appearance for Rangers was on 18 December 1880 in a Scottish Cup 5th Round tie v Hurlford. Rangers won 3-0 and Christie scored a goal. He played his last game for Rangers before going to Bolton on 24 December 1881.

The Complete Record for Bolton Wanderers only shows FA Cup ties in these pre-league days and he played in the following FA Cup ties:

4 Nov 1882 - Round 1 v Bootle (home) -Won 6-1
30 Nov 1882 - Round 2 v Liverpool Ramblers (home) - Won 3-0
6 Jan 1883 -Round 3 v Druids (away) -Draw 0-0
22 Jan 1883 - Round 3 Replay (home) - Draw 1-1 (a.e.t.)
29 Jan 1883 -Round 3 2nd.Replay (neutral) - Lost 0-1

He was still at the club at Easter as he played in a friendly when Third Lanark visited Bolton on Easter Monday (24 March 1883).

He was back at Rangers for the start of the 1883-84 season and played the first match on 31 July 1883 in a friendly against Dumbarton. His last game for Rangers is recorded as on 19 January 1884 against Vale of Leven in a Scottish Cup semi-final.
However, he was back at Bolton on 15 March 1884 to play for Wanderers against Rangers and played other matches until the end of the season. He does not appear to have played for Bolton in the 1884-85 season and was not in the team that played Aston Villa on 4 October 1884, when Yoker played Tayavalla.

In the 1881 Census there is a John Christie (age 21) who is a patternmaker living with his parents at 227 Berkeley Street that looks to be Anderston although Bolton Wanderers quoted his address as 227 Berkley [sic] Street, Dumbarton Road, Glasgow.

He is John Christie born on 4 August 1859 in Linlithgow.

[Alan McCabe]

Brilliant Bluedragon.

As I said, there is almost certainly no way of ever substantiating Christie's 17-goal haul, assuming that he was indeed the ace marksman.

Jock Petrie's record is still safe....for now.

[bluedragon]

Although, as you say, we will probably never find the answer, it is still interesting to follow up.

Apart from John Christie there appears to have been three other players at the time who could claim to be “late of Rangers” and “late of Bolton Wanderers”. Here are three Rangers players who went to Bolton:

STRUTHERS was a forward but was still at Bolton Wanderers in the 1884-85 season although he did not play against Aston Villa on 4 October 1884

STEEL or STEELE played for Bolton Wanderers in the match against Aston Villa on 4 October 1884

DEVLIN played for Bolton Wanderers in the 1881-82 season but appears to have been a full back.

[bluedragon]

Although, as you say, we will probably never find the answer, it is still interesting to follow up.

Apart from John Christie there appears to have been three other players at the time who could claim to be “late of Rangers” and “late of Bolton Wanderers”. Here are three Rangers players who went to Bolton:

STRUTHERS was a forward but was still at Bolton Wanderers in the 1884-85 season although he did not play against Aston Villa on 4 October 1884

STEEL or STEELE played for Bolton Wanderers in the match against Aston Villa on 4 October 1884

DEVLIN played for Bolton Wanderers in the 1881-82 season but appears to have been a full back.

[Alan McCabe]

I cannot find any reference to the Yoker line-up for the match v Tayavalla and, since SFA records don't exist earlier than 1888, it's reasonable to assume that information is lost in the mists of time.

I did, though, find the line-up for the next round match v Vale of Leven and of all the names listed only Christie appears.

I am fairly sure Christie was the 'crack forward' that played against Tayavalla but, given the lack of evidence, the anecdotal 17-goal haul will need to remain posted in the 'not proven' files.

[bluedragon]

John Christie appears to have stayed on at Yoker as the Lennox Herald -10 January 1885, 24 January 1885, 5 September 1885 and 27 November 1886 all show Christie as a forward in the Yoker line-up. Furthermore the issue of 10 January 1885 includes this revelation -"Yoker v Airdrieonians-This New Year's Day fixture came off on the Airdrie Cricket Ground and resulted in a win for the Airdrieonians by six goals to two." "For the Yoker, Christie (Bolton Wanderers,late of the Rangers) showed good play." Exactly the same wording as above is shown in Lanarkshire Upper Ward Examiner of 3 January 1885.