Scottish Cup crowd

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Alan McCabe
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Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Alan McCabe » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:03 pm

A few queries regarding missing Scottish Cup results from 2013-14.

Does anyone have the following attendance figures?

Round 1
Golspie Sutherland v Edinburgh City
Huntly v Preston Athletic
Coldstream v Wick Academy
Forres Mechanics v Keith
Hawick Royal Albert v St Cuthbert Wanderers
Lossiemouth v Culter
Round 1 Replay
Newton Stewart v Fort William

All the above are understandable, indeed expected given the lack of coverage of the opening round but I also need figures for these two :

Round 4
Inverness Caledonian Thistle v Morton
Quarter-Final Replay
Albion Rovers v Rangers

As for this season's competition, the coverage of the Prelimenary Round is even worse than normal with goalscorers still untraced, let alone crowd figures. Hopefully a few will surface in the next few days.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:00 am

Alan, Andy McGregor's Scottish Football Almanac - see Book reviews - has estimates for every 1st round tie where figures aren't known. For the games in question these are:
Golspie 80
Huntly 200
Coldstream 100
Forres 250
Hawick 120
Lossie 150
Newton Stewart 60

Inverness was 1568 and the Albion Rovers replay 5354

I've been comparing notes with Andy over the weekend and this is the situation so far. William Hill are aware of the lack of detail and have said they'll try to get more published. But that's reliant on both clubs and the SFA and we know how good that's been in the past.

Auchinleck Talbot 5-1 St Cuthbert Wanderers
AT
Hyslop 20
Gormley 26p, 79
Wilson 31
Spence 73

ST C
Solty 86

Edinburgh City 5-0 Fort William 156
Gair 33,
Dunn 43,48
Osborne 70
McFarland 88

Glasgow University 1-9 Cove Rangers 112
GU Dunlon 64

CR
Watt 20, 23, 38
Yule 46
Scully 48
Smith 54
Lennox 70, 72
Selfridge 90

Hurlford United 2-2 Edinburgh University
HU
Cochrane 16
????

EU
???? 34
????
HT 1-2

Lothian Thistle 3-0 Burntisland Shipyard 103
Mushit ??
Wring ??
Kean ??
HT 0-0

Newton Stewart 2-2 Hawick Royal Albert 66
NS
Jordan 20
Richardson 90

HRA
Somers 77
Ramsay 80

Vale of Leithen 0-1 Gala Fairydean 127
Robinson 90

Wigtown & Bladnoch 1-2 Civil Service Strollers
W&B
????

CSS
????
????
HT 0-1

Alan McCabe
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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Alan McCabe » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:26 am

Thanks David. Got some of these from various sources, like yourself I imagine, with reliance placed on twitter and facebook accounts in some instances.
How bad are things getting in the midst of the second decade of the 21st century when we're reliant on the modern version of carrier pigeons to find details about national ties? Ridiculous!
This is probably the worst effort since the competition's re-organisation and the SFA should feel ashamed.
The FA Cup kicked off at the weekend with the first batch of 732 competitors starting the road to Wembley. What's the betting the situation with the FA is markedly different?
You'd almost think the SFA are embarrassed of their event.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by bluedragon » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:02 pm

Alan McCabe wrote:Thanks David. Got some of these from various sources, like yourself I imagine, with reliance placed on twitter and facebook accounts in some instances.
How bad are things getting in the midst of the second decade of the 21st century when we're reliant on the modern version of carrier pigeons to find details about national ties? Ridiculous!
This is probably the worst effort since the competition's re-organisation and the SFA should feel ashamed.
The FA Cup kicked off at the weekend with the first batch of 732 competitors starting the road to Wembley. What's the betting the situation with the FA is markedly different?
You'd almost think the SFA are embarrassed of their event.
The FA use an automated text messaging system this season. Each club gets a text 15 minutes after kick off which tells them how to reply with result AND attendance. Once sent publication of match details are published automatically.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:14 pm

Yes, but is that any better than SFA carrier pigeons? 184 FA Cup Extra Preliminary round games here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_FA ... ing_Rounds

Results for all and crowds for almost all. No reports or line-ups but links to Wiki entries for all clubs which should lead to club websites for vast majority.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by HibeeJibee » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:19 pm

http://euafc.com/2014/08/18/euafc-earn- ... or-champs/
http://www.dgnews-sport.co.uk/index.php ... ball/?k=:4::

Edinburgh Uni website report gives their scorers as Stuart Macfarlane and Ross Paterson.

D&G News gives Wigtown's scorer as Michael Donnelly (penalty), Christopher Tobin and Jack Downie for Civil Service. Today's Scotsman agrees (spelt MacFarlane).

Scotsman also gives LTHV's scorers as Kevin Kean "direct from a corner" and a Sean Wringe "double", and Hurlford's equaliser as McKenzie 'deflected freekick'.

However, the Scotsman disagrees with you concerning:
* Osborne scoring twice for Edinburgh City, with no goal for Gair
* Adam Stewart opening for Newton Stewart, not Jordan
* Summers not Somers for Hawick
* Dunion not Dunlon for Glasgow Uni
* Soltys not Solty for St Cuthbert


It is not an accurate or substantiated source, but someone on Pie & Bovril says "300-350" at Auchinleck. It's a bit of a standing joke that some of their own fans estimates are invariably over-egged, however. Although that said 300 would actually seem by no means unlikely in their context.


Part of me almost hopes someone in the depths of Hampden had actively decided to prettymuch disregard the weekend's ties on the basis of them being "Preliminary" as it is too depressing to think that they might treat the impending First Round in the same way. As an example, its draw is apparently tomorrow afternoon but you will not find any mention of that on SFA outlets, AFAICS.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:31 am

Thanks for info. Yes, some are obviously spelling errors/typos but the NS scorers came from their official Twitter account from attendee. Similarly, the LTVH match details you have are the same as on Shippies website but I took my details from Andy, who was at the match.

My unwritten, but very real, rule is to accept the source closest to the event - in this instance two attendees. Though I'm happy to change if further clarified - by the club for example.

So, taking that into account the only real dispute is Gair or Osborne for Edinburgh City and The Scotsman trumps the wires so I'll change that.

Alas, I fear the 1st round will go the same way it has in past years with little if anything extra than the preliminary round added

EDIT:
Just seen that Mushet was Burntisland keeper. have amended to give Wring second goal. Now reads Kean 55, Wring 78, ??

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:44 am

I'm also trying to find out who the Glasgow University coach is. It was Ian Cameron last season but I don't know if he's still in charge or not. Any info appreciated.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by ScottishFA » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:21 am

When I was at the SFA in the mid-2000s I made a suggestion that the Association should have a representative at every Scottish Cup match - a bit like the SPFL do for Premier League games, or UEFA having a delegate at every match.

This was mainly to ensure that things like sponsorship and media obligations were met, but would also have been useful in 'showing face' at member clubs, resolving disputes, possibly checking player eligibility and of course recording match details. There are enough staff and officials to go round but it would also have cost money so unfortunately the idea was rejected. I'll maybe have a word with my former colleagues about reviving the suggestion, but don't hold your breath.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:41 am

Another area where there's sometimes difficulty in finding out accurate figures is Europe. Often that's down to estimates from away games and Celtic's occasional failure to issue home returns. At any rate, these are this season's figures so far (only one estimate and it should have been the easiest of the lot to count).

Aberdeen
Daugava Riga 15,184 H 600 A
Groningen 16,523 H 20,332 A
Real Sociedad 17,676 H 23,147 A (I saw one estimate of this match as low as 15,000)

Celtic
KR Reykjavik 39,099 H 2,781 A
Legia Warsaw 30,345 H 22,265 A

Motherwell
UMF Stjarnan 4,877 H 1,021 A

St Johnstone
Luzern 8,486 H 8,902 A
Spartak Trnava 7,001 H 3,884 A

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:44 am

Two conflicting estimates for Hurlford of 150 & 300. You pays your money.........

Alan McCabe
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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Alan McCabe » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:01 pm

I watched the highlights of Hurlford v the Uni and the crowd looks disappointing for a club which holds the Junior Cup. While you can't see what's in attendance on the camera side, and taking the noise levels into account, I would think somewhere between those two figures would be about right.
I know Hurlford were never one of the junior grade's bigger clubs and the visitors were never likely to bring a sizeable following, but the turnout does look poor. Good on them though, for filming their games regularly and at least endeavouring to get their message out.

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:40 pm

What makes it look particularly poor to me is that Killie were away in Dingwall. I would have expected a fair few to have gone along to Blair Park.

Is it Hurlford filming or just part of the general Scottish Cup package?

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Alan McCabe » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:57 pm

The Hurlford coverage appears to be in-house, David.
On the basis that the various highlight packages don't appear to be available anywhere, it looks like even the cameramen weren't considered needed for the Prelimenary Round!

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Re: Scottish Cup crowd

Post by Scottish » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:22 pm

Alan McCabe wrote:The Hurlford coverage appears to be in-house, David.
On the basis that the various highlight packages don't appear to be available anywhere, it looks like even the cameramen weren't considered needed for the Prelimenary Round!
Yes, it's not on the SFA YouTube channel. So much for "every game, ever goal."

As far as I know here's what missing in terms of scorers and crowds
Hurlford United - two conflicting crowd estimates of 300 & 150 - latter from spectator. Time of 2nd EU goal. Scorer Paterson, between 34th and 45th minute. 1st EU scorer Stuart McParlane (thanks to Richard Cairns) not McFarlane/Macfarlane
Lothian Thistle HV - time of Wring's 2nd (LTHV's 3rd), between 78th and 90th minute
Wigtown - all goal times Tobin CSS 1st half, Donnelly pen Wig & Downie CSS both 2nd half - and crowd.

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